2020 Copa Libertadores / 2020 Copa Sudamericana

[jason voorhees]

With the Copa Paraguay, Guarani and Libertad were the past two winners. Libertad winning the Copa Paraguay then finishing 2nd in the Apertura knocked Cerro to the qualifying rounds.

Guarani didn't have such good leagues, but the Copa and being a Copa finalist probably got them in. I don't think most people understand, as there were Olimpia tweets making fun of Cerro not being in the CL last week...not realizing they were already in the 2nd round.

I'm definitely trying to see Guarani-Corinthians, as it's the last game before the kids come back. But Olimpia-Santos....that's one I'd be willing to part with my left one over.

[danielmak]

The first day of Round 2 qualifiers is done. DIM were the strongest side, crushing Dep Tachira. U de Chile was lucky to hold off Internacional for a 0-0 draw since La U were down to 10 men for a long time and Internacional were much better. The good news is that 0-0 puts La U in a good position, since they have opportunities to advance with a scoring draw or with a win. The bad news is that Internacional will likely conclude excellent ball movement with some goals. Finally, Macara lost at home to Deportes Tolima from Colombia. Macara were (perhaps) a surprise side in the 2019 Ecuadoran Serie A so we'll see if they can overcome this small deficit in the return leg.

[cantagalo]

The Universidad v Inter game was moved to the afternoon in an attempt to minimise protests. These happened nonetheless with anti-government chanting and a fairly substantial fire lit behind Marcelo Lomba's goal in the second half.

As an aside, does anyone know how the dispute for the final Libertadores place between Universidad and Union Espaņola, referenced in the latest WSC, was settled in favour of Universidad?

There was another Brazil v Chile tie in the Sul-americana as Fluminense took on La Calera. It ended in a disappointing (for Flu) 1-1 draw. New season, new manager but Flu were just as profligate with their chances as last year and it needed the substitution of the ageing Nene with Edinilson and Marcos Paulo for them to finally score - but to no avail as, typically, they conceded an equaliser a few minutes later. It will be interesting to see the crowd arrangements for the return leg.

[jason voorhees]

Cerro gets the away goal for a 1:1 tie in Peru against The Ooh.

Guarani has 1:0 lead against Corinthians. They also featured an absolutely hilarious wall where one guy laid down backwards to the ball to avoid the Ronaldinho-style low shot once the wall junps

[jason voorhees]

[jason voorhees]

[danielmak]

The Universidad v Inter game was moved to the afternoon in an attempt to minimise protests. These happened nonetheless with anti-government chanting and a fairly substantial fire lit behind Marcelo Lomba's goal in the second half.

As an aside, does anyone know how the dispute for the final Libertadores place between Universidad and Union Espaņola, referenced in the latest WSC, was settled in favour of Universidad?

There was another Brazil v Chile tie in the Sul-americana as Fluminense took on La Calera. It ended in a disappointing (for Flu) 1-1 draw. New season, new manager but Flu were just as profligate with their chances as last year and it needed the substitution of the ageing Nene with Edinilson and Marcos Paulo for them to finally score - but to no avail as, typically, they conceded an equaliser a few minutes later. It will be interesting to see the crowd arrangements for the return leg.

I haven't received the latest WSC yet so don't have context. Unfortunately, the Chilean league has been off Fanatiz for two years and TV Chile in the US also does not have rights. If Universidad is referencing U de Chile (versus the Peruvian side), U de Chile are in because of the Copa Chile final. They lost to Colo Colo but Colo Colo already had a spot by finishing second in the league. The top two spots (Catolica as winners and Colo Colo as runners up) are straight into the group stage, the third spot was Palestino as third place in the league, and the fourth spot is U de Chile as Copa de Chile losers. I don't know if it would have made a difference had La U won the Copa Chile.

Well, Flu has been a consistent Sudamericana side the past three seasons so I'd assume they might do ok back in Chile against a much smaller side.

BTW is this the same manager with Corinthians that won the league or has that manager already been sacked/left for more money somewhere else?

I think a 1 goal lead isn't the end for Corinthians, who had some chances, but I'll be eager to see what kind of football Guarani wants to play in the return leg.

I'm only up to Wednesday since I worked very late on Wednesday night. So, I'm first working through the other Sudamericana games from Wednesda before watching the Thursday Copa Libertadores match. But it seems that most of the Librertadores ties can go either way other than the DIM-Tachira tie, which should be done and dusted. The Strongest are in good shape but they now have to do well on the road.

In Sudameriana news, the second legs will be a bit more mixed in terms of some sides having a commanding lead (Coquimbo Unido and Atl Nacional), some having a good lead (Melgar), and others much tighter than we would expect (the aformentioned Flu tie as well as Velez-Aucas).

[cantagalo]

Ah right. They must have finished the Copa Chile in January after WSC went to press. The article suggested it might not be played.

Corinthians' last League title was in 2017 under Fábio Carille. It was a dire year and Corinthians won it by having a sound defence and being slightly less awful than their competitors. He stayed until the end of last season. The style of football didn't improve but to be fair to him, he had to cope with the sale of just about any decent player.

I'm much more optimistic this year as they've appointed the excellent Tiago Nunes who had great success with Athletico Paranaense, including the 2018 Copa Sudamericana and a fifth place league finish last year. He is one of the few Brazilian coaches who is brave enough to play possession-based, short-passing, pressing football. Of course, the caveat is that it will take time to implement but at least watching them won't be the bore-fest it's been in the last few years.

[danielmak]

Yeah, the Copa Chile Final was played a few weeks back, so in January. The Second Division liguilla happened then as well, so everything was pushed back after the unrest late last year.

Vasco won 1-0, but I can't say much about this one since there was no sound through my service provider and the other option I have they spend more time telling me that the game is on demand (even though it's not) than actually figuring out how to get it added to their server for VOD.

I'm currently watching Barcelona-Sporting Cristal although it's the one game I had spoiled. Barcelona will be set for the next round and have been crushing opponents so far in this competition. Maybe we'll see a return to the side that was one of the in-form sides a couple years back.

Also, forgot to say that the Mineros-Luqueno Sudamericana match was a thriller. Luqueno won on the road 2-3 but the goals came in quick succession. The defense wasn't so hot but the game was exciting. You might look for the return leg, JV, if Luqueno play close to where you live.

[jason voorhees]

Been cooking and eating dinner, came back to the game in the 2nd had to keep counting La U’s players to make sure they didn’t get another red from how toothless they’ve been. Granted, they’re a lucky corner or direct kick away from stealing it, but they have looked utterly awful in the 2nd.

1-0 Internacional

[jason voorhees]

Tachira - Dep Independiente Medellín is a bit more engaging, as Tachira has taken a bite out of the 4:0 1st leg and it’s now 2-4 with 20+ to play.

[ursus arctos]

La U have been dire, but clearly have concluded that their only hope is to harass, annoy and frustrate, whil hoping they can get lucky on the break.

[ursus arctos]

2-0 et fin

[danielmak]

Yeah, La U were bad. Very few chances all night. Chilean football is in the doldrums right now in terms of the Libertadores. Colo Colo made it out of the group recently but not in a way that showed any real promise. Catolica has won some titles but we'll see what they can bring this year. I don't expect much.

I'm a day behind on both competitions and not getting home from work until 10:30 doesn't help. I finished watching Argentinos Juniors who could only draw at home against Huancayo even though Argentinos had a large percentage of possession and way more shots on goal. I don't have time to watch the Superliga but Tim Vickery was calling this game and noted that things have been bad since the league started back. I assume they might be dumped in the return leg at altitude in Peru.

I'm 77 minutes into Tolima-Macara. Macara are playing with 10 men and the match seems to be a repeat of the first leg: Tolima is the much better side but can't find a second goal. I feel bad for the Ecuadorans because they had an excellent 2019 tournament and should be rewarded but Tolima looks good. If they can match their ball movement with some finishing then they might cause some trouble going forward (that's relative given my lack of faith in the smaller clubs in the year-long format) but will be worth the neutral's attention.

[cantagalo]

Corinthians' elimination on away goals by Guarani was a bit of a disaster. Luan had put them 1-0 up but Pedrinho was sent off. They managed to get the second goal only to concede from a free-kick in the second half. It was by no means a bad performance but the damage has been done in the first leg.

[jason voorhees]

Real proper batshit loco Libertadores game, Guarani 1:2 Corinthians.

Horrible coaching tactics rescued by ridiculously stupid yellows and red cards; sublime goals; military grade capsaicin-hot crowd, and VHHAAAGGNNNERRR......LhhhuuuuHHHVVVV.

And this guy's face that was only surpassed by his hawk squawk:

(:41 seconds in)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA68bTT3BvU

[jason voorhees]

Gustavo Costas followed up his colossal brainfart of fielding one extra foreign player against Olimpia, by going with a 5-4-1. It was evident the players were neither trained nor possessing any idea of how to work together in that system, and somehow allowed a wide-open shot from the top of the penalty area that the crow-voiced gentlemen above was reacting to only minutes in.

They were somewhat rescued by the first-ever time I saw a red card given for an attempted Chileņa/bicycle kick (attempted in that it missed the ball, but got the defender's face.) That proceeded to Vagner......LLLuuuhhhhVVVV getting an assist for an unmarked forward this time wide-open at the 6-yard box. One cross Corinthians had 3 people all miss. It was like that Bugs Bunny cartoon Bugs perplexed them with the old slow ball.

However, with a halftime to make the only adjustment that mattered....play the system and way you've been playing during your undefeated streak....Guarani got the away goal.

Unfortunately, Godzilla Johan Romaņa got the red card, so they'll have to figure out how to get past Palestino in the final knockout round.

Cerro Porteņo won 1-0, in which Universitario had as many goals as Cerro had fans.

Unfortunately they were sanctioned by CONMEBULL for that flarrreicane against River Plate. I mean who needs a million flares going off at once?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B138gcaC4m8

[danielmak]

I was wondering why Cerro Porteno had to play behind closed doors. This was the only Libertadores game that didn't air on BeIN with English commentary if I remember correctly.

Palestino blew out Cerro Largo to also advance.

I though Corinthians came out with the right approach but that red card was a killer. The wall didn't seem to jump high enough on the free kick, but it was also a very well placed free kick, so not much the keeper could do beyond get some fingers on the ball.

I'm behind with Sudamericana and will finish those this weekend. Lanus looked very good and will be set for the next round.

[jason voorhees]

Cerro Porreno loses in Ecuador to Other Barcelona, and 10-men Guarani wins at Palestino 1-0.

Both return matches will be at the Nuevo Olla next week, thus guaranteeing I won’t go.

[danielmak]

Not the most exciting round of games during those first legs. The scorelines were fairly reflective of the quality. Excellent goal by a 10-men Guarani.

If I was you JV, I'd try to get to that Barcelona-Cerro game. I think it could be interesting, but I assume if I look back at your recap of the different clubs in the Paraguayan thread, the reason for your avoidance of both games will be clear.

I'm still working my way through the Sudamericana games, but I'll add some notes here about three that I finished. First, Flu was knocked out by a smaller Chilean side, which is a bit of a shock. I know Flu has been closer to relegation than a title in recent years but they have been very good in this competition. Second, Velez was saved by a last second penalty to beat a smaller Ecuadoran side (Aucas) on away goals. Finally, the Mineros-Sportivo Luqueno match was the match of the first leg ties for this batch of games (COMMEBOL is rotating the matches for this first round so the home/away happens every other week with a second batch of teams playing during the alternating weeks). Anyway, this return leg kept up with the action. Mineros took a quick two goal lead to go ahead in the tie but Luqueno came back in the second half and move on to the next round based on goal difference. This was really exciting tie.

Finally, to end on a positive note, the first leg of the Recopa was also a thriller. Independiente del Valle has played above their status in the past 3-4 years and did so again, albiet at altitude in Quito. I'd expect Flamengo to take the title but I IdV will make keep things exciting.

[jason voorhees]

As a general rule, I try not to go to the Nuevo Olla. Dicey neighborhood, dicey fans who mug and rob their own fans, etc.

I won’t even see Guarani playing there against Corinthians or Palestino, and didn’t go to the River game last year.

But I will be giving up a left ball for Olimpia-Santos.

[danielmak]

Ah, I get it. There's a guy I email with from time to time who lives in Uruguay. He says that almost all the stadia there are a major hassle. He works for the FA there so he can go to any ground for free but he says that the games seem to exist so drug dealers have something to do and other con artists can keep themselves busy. That was an interesting description because I got the sense that Uruguay was one of the more stable and safer countries in SA right now. Of course, he could be overreacting, but each person will assess her or his own comfort level in a space.

Olimpia's group isn't the strongest or the most attractive for a neutral. The Santos game is certainly the most enticing. Delfin had a nice season last year but I have no idea if much of that squad is still intact. Defensa y Justicia is still there or thereabouts for a 2021 Libertadores spot, but that's not saying much since they are in 12th (i.e., about half the teams are in the mix for a spot depending on Argentina's allocation of spots for 2021--if they use a copa de super liga again then what it means to be Top 6 changes and if the Copa Argentina winner is a top 4 side then that changes things as well). Anyway, that game might also be worth your time, but this is coming from a guy who watches (as best I can so there is also a lot of "just listening") to every Libertadores and Sudamericana match.

[jason voorhees]

Thank Fuck I didn't go to the Barcelona Numerous Gols:0 10-player Cerro game. Unless to see Cerro go down in flames and red cards.

The day after Amorbieta (which kind of sounds like Love-of-Biting) took a chomp out of Camacho's head in the famous 4-goal Roque poker superclassico last season, a kid said to me "I saw Amorbieta and did this (made a chomping motion with his teeth.) I said, "what do you mean when you saw him."

He said "I saw him. His kid goes here. He's upstairs."

I looked upstairs. He was standing there. I turned to the kid.

I said "one thing you never should do, is make fun of someone biting someone when they actually bit someone."

He got a red card tonight. For how good Cerro looked against the O (which admittedly, they are all tied up on all time wins and losses after having a double-digit lead until Trovato took over, and were quite motivated not to be the team that lost the lead after decades of having it,) they looked as shit tonight.

Nacional looked unbelievably shit against Bahia in the Sudamericana, as did Other River Plate against Deportivo Cali. At least Sol de America made it.

It's all about Guarani, anyway. They've been the best team in the past month in this country. Even without Defense God Romaņa.

Wish Cerro could have made it, as Flamengo would have been in town. Would've also loved to have seen Independiente Del Valle return to the site of their greatest triumph last year and Junior and their dope camistas, but oh well.

[cantagalo]

Internacional set up their place in the same group as Gręmio with a 1-0 win over Tolima. It was a bit of a struggle after d'Alessandro (yes, still playing at the age of 38) was sent off.

We can be thankful that Barcelona managed to score four. With one match left tonight, no other team has managed more than 1 in the whole of the third preliminary round. Barcelona's Fidel Martinez now has 8 goals, just one behind Gabriel's total in 2019. Apparently goals scored in the pre-Libertadores count for the top scorer title.

[ursus arctos]

Flamengo won the Recopa with an entertaining (if bit mad) 3-0 win over IDV at the Marcana last night