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Non-league football in Britain vs non-league football in Europe.

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    Non-league football in Britain vs non-league football in Europe.

    There is a urban (possible) myth that non-league football in the UK is much healthier than that of any other county, certainly that that of Europe. While England and Scotland are the only countries that has more than two national professional leagues, most of the European league seem to go semi-pro and regional after two (albeit in much bigger countries) and non-league attendance and a culture of non-league supporting seems to be a fraction of what it is in Britain. Is this a myth?

    #2
    European non-league is restricted by the law that at least twice per game day, they must play that Ed Sheran song that sounds like a Nokia ring tune.

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      #3
      In reality, non league in the UK and its counterpart in Europe (ie outside their top 4 levels) have completely different functions.

      in the UK, the clubs are generally all about the first team, with reserves and youth teams functioning to support the first team. The clubs are usually privately owned and funded by an individual or committee, and have sole use of their own grounds with quite stringent grading requirements

      in Europe, they are usually large amateur sports clubs with many different activities at a myriad of age groups. The football first team is therefore far from the central focus it is in the UK. There is also a lot less reliance on it being self supporting financially, as the teams cross subsidise each other. In addition, the clubs are usually community owned, and use municipal sports facilities shared with other teams.

      So no, what you say in terms of attendance isn't a myth, but culturally, the two systems operate for different means.

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        #4
        The distinction between league and non-league also tends not to be as sharp, and more "leagues" feature a number of different economic models. The latter is facilitated by regionalized "leagues" that can have more than 100 clubs.

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          #5
          Whilst multi-sport clubs are exceedingly rare, Football is also distinct to many other monosport organisations in England in that structure. For example, Rugby Clubs will often field 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th XVs, and whilst the 1st team will be the marquee side of the club and have the best maintained pitch reserved for their games, as it's an amateur organisation the 4th XV is felt to be equally important in their own way. Their fixtures and results matter in an of themselves. They are not solely a feeder team supplying players for the 1st XV.
          To give the example I know well, five Hockey clubs currently play their home games in Cambridge. City, the Uni, South, Nomads and Royston, who are in exile after their home pitch shut. Between those five clubs though, 22 Male and 18 Female teams will be fielded tomorrow. You need to go down as far as step 11 on the Football pyramid to start finding such numbers of Football sides that play somewhere in or around the city. That level is where clubs like Cambridge University Press, Cherry Hinton, Fulbourn Institute and Great Shelford operate.

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            #6
            The FA Cup is often wrongly claimed to be the only cup in the world that any team in the country can enter. While over 600 clubs do enter, it is in fact limited to just the top ten levels of our league system and far from every club in levels 9 or 10 enter. The Coupe de France normally gets over 1200 entrants every year, and the DFB Pokal has a similar de facto number, although as I understand it the qualifying system for everyone outside the Bundesliga is through last year's 21 regionalised state cup competitions, rather than being under the Pokal umbrella itself.

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              #7
              All 1. Bundesliga and 2. Bundesliga clubs and the top three from the 3. Liga, plus the Landespokal/Verbabdspokal champions, thus giving one 64 clubs for the "proper" competition.

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                #8
                The 3.Liga is fully (or almost fully) professional, as well. Or at least, it was when I started my Chemnitz save on Football Manager 2013.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                  The distinction between league and non-league also tends not to be as sharp, and more "leagues" feature a number of different economic models. The latter is facilitated by regionalized "leagues" that can have more than 100 clubs.
                  Definitely this. I've been to "League" games in Italy where I'm pretty sure I've been the only paying spectator who wasn't a friend or relative of one of the players (I'm looking at you, AC Renate). But then I've also been at "non-league" games there with crowds that you'd expect to see at least at the higher levels of non-league in England.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                    The FA Cup is often wrongly claimed to be the only cup in the world that any team in the country can enter. While over 600 clubs do enter, it is in fact limited to just the top ten levels of our league system and far from every club in levels 9 or 10 enter. The Coupe de France normally gets over 1200 entrants every year, and the DFB Pokal has a similar de facto number, although as I understand it the qualifying system for everyone outside the Bundesliga is through last year's 21 regionalised state cup competitions, rather than being under the Pokal umbrella itself.
                    I may have read this wrong previously, but doesn't the French club include clubs from French provinces and territories all over the World as well?

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                      #11
                      This season's French Cup has had about 7000 entries. In some regions early rounds were held before last year's final.

                      Each overseas department and territory has its own qualifiers that produce a team that gets to play a side from the mainland. This can be either home or away, with the venue alternating in each round should an overseas team progress (i.e. If they are at home in Round Seven, they will go to the mainland for Round Eight). For some reason there is a rule in place that says overseas teams playing in the mainland have to play within 100km of Paris, with a neutral venue allocated if the team they are drawn against is outside this zone - seems odd to me that a team that may have come half way round the world won't go a couple of hundred miles further. I think mainland clubs are able to request not to be included amongst the teams that could be drawn against overseas opposition.

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                        #12
                        The reason fo that rule is that the DOM-TOM diaspora is overwhelmingly concentrated in and around Paris, thus assuring the visiting sides of serious support. The matches are always genuine social and cultural events.

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                          #13
                          Forgive my ignorance but DOM-TOM?

                          Originally posted by Sam View Post
                          The 3.Liga is fully (or almost fully) professional, as well. Or at least, it was when I started my Chemnitz save on Football Manager 2013.
                          Ah, completely forgot Germany. Professionalism still goes a lot further here with National League being half-professional. The other thing about semi-pro/pro is that, as I am finding out, a semi-pro player can quite easily be paid the same as a teacher.

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                            #14
                            Shows my age, as Macron has recently renamed them, but France's overseas departments and territories (the OM is for Outre-Mer)

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Southport Zeb View Post
                              This season's French Cup has had about 7000 entries. In some regions early rounds were held before last year's final.

                              Each overseas department and territory has its own qualifiers that produce a team that gets to play a side from the mainland. This can be either home or away, with the venue alternating in each round should an overseas team progress (i.e. If they are at home in Round Seven, they will go to the mainland for Round Eight). For some reason there is a rule in place that says overseas teams playing in the mainland have to play within 100km of Paris, with a neutral venue allocated if the team they are drawn against is outside this zone - seems odd to me that a team that may have come half way round the world won't go a couple of hundred miles further. I think mainland clubs are able to request not to be included amongst the teams that could be drawn against overseas opposition.
                              The early rounds also double up as rounds for other regional competitions i.e the French equivalent of county cups.

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