Gary Speed

[The Exploding Vole]

Gary Speed

"Savage to dedicate Strictly dance to Speed" says the Beeb. I am wondering if the world could possibly become any more vapid.

[Ray de Galles]

Gary Speed

It doesn't fill me with anticipation but does it matter what we think of how a friend of his chooses to pay tribute to Speed?

[Diable Rouge]

Gary Speed

Our old friend Kevin Myers is back again - today he says the marking of Speed's death, and of suicide in general, glorifies "self-murder", and that us ultra-PC types should reinstate the social taboo, presumably he thus also favours the victims being buried in unconsecradted graves again.

[Jimmy Bignutz]

Gary Speed

Self-murder? I self-burgled my flat this morning - took my wallet, phone, iPod, keys. It's becoming a real problem.

[The Exploding Vole]

Gary Speed

I can put you in touch with someone, Jimmy.

[jeanmid]

Gary Speed

what a cunt, I had a bad feeling someone would write an article along these lines I just thought that The Independent would have had the good sense not to publish it

[Dalef65]

Gary Speed

The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote:

Kevin Sheedy is as Irish to me as Ray Houghton was.

70% of their fathers generation emigrated. If their children want to play for Ireland, that makes them Irish enough. People born in britain with at least one irish parent make up about 7 percent of our population, and made up most of the immigrants to Ireland over the last 15 years.

Did/does Tony Cascarino have any Irish blood in him..?

I think he is on record as saying that he hasnt...
Anybody got any definite knowledge on this,...?

[Dalef65]

Gary Speed

RIP Gary speed by the way...!

[Sean of the Shed]

Gary Speed

Dalef65 wrote:

The Awesome Berbaslug!!! wrote:

Kevin Sheedy is as Irish to me as Ray Houghton was.

70% of their fathers generation emigrated. If their children want to play for Ireland, that makes them Irish enough. People born in britain with at least one irish parent make up about 7 percent of our population, and made up most of the immigrants to Ireland over the last 15 years.

Did/does Tony Cascarino have any Irish blood in him..?

I think he is on record as saying that he hasnt...
Anybody got any definite knowledge on this,...?

I read his autobiography some years ago. I'm certain that he admitted in that that he was not eligible to play for Ireland, but it was never looked into by the football authorities.

[Outside Agent]

Gary Speed

Cascarino was eligible to play for Ireland through his Irish grandmother on his mother's side. He revealed in his biography in 2002 that this grandmother wasn't actually his grandmother-by-birth as his mother was adopted. Therefore, he was never eligible. He didn't know this when he declared for Ireland.

I've just read Kevin Myers piece. http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-suicide-is-selfmurder-and-must-remain-taboo-2952757.html I think he, quite stupidly, fails to see that the coverage of Speed's death is merely reflecting the modern phenomenon of how the public and media respond to the death of a famous person, and certainly not any 'glamourising' of suicide.

[Ray de Galles]

Gary Speed

I have read that, contrary to what he thought at the time, Cascarino was eligible for Ireland as his mother's adoption conferred Irish citizenship on her which qualified him.

[Arturo]

Gary Speed

Myers also uses the military 'heroes' angle, which came up on BBC News this morning, when a couple of people complained that the Gary Speed coverage overshadowed two deaths in Afghanistan. It's almost a stock response now to use the war as a comparison if there's a news story that doesn't merit people's attention.

Suprised Jeremy Clarkson hasn't had his tuppence worth yet.

[G-Man]

Gary Speed

Well, it was inconsiderate of Speed not to ascertain that his suicide won't displace other important news stories. How must poor Prince William feel about his aeronautic heroics being relegated to skybox status rather than 105 point four-deck banner lead with a big picture?

Myers isn't suggesting that two more men killed in a war would have knocked Flying Wilhelm off the news leads, is he?

[Bored Of Education]

Gary Speed

How much coverage do soldiers getting killed get in the papers? On radio and TV, when it is one or two get killed, it gets reported and that is it.

Also, to be blunt, what people using the comparison are missing is that soldiers getting killed in a war isn't exactly news.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Gary Speed

Kevin myers: giving mental illness a bad name since 1947

[rick derris]

Gary Speed

Cascarino came to realise during his irish caree he wasnt actually eligible. an added complication to this was FIFA started insisting that players hold the passport of the country they play for. Cas had to send his application form off, knowing he wasn't eligible and was likely to humiliated by being rejected, not to mention the added problems it would bring. only to get a irish passport back a week later. The guy in the passport office obviously wasn't going to deny a national hero

[anton pulisov]

Gary Speed

Oh Kevin Myers.

If Gary Speed had been killed in Afghanistan, we'd be having the same coverage.

edit: And then Kevin Myers would be writing an article about how we celebrate war.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Gary Speed

and then kevin Myers would be writing an article about how we should celebrate war properly.

Fixed.

[Ray de Galles]

Gary Speed

rick derris wrote:

Cascarino came to realise during his irish caree he wasnt actually eligible. an added complication to this was FIFA started insisting that players hold the passport of the country they play for. Cas had to send his application form off, knowing he wasn't eligible and was likely to humiliated by being rejected, not to mention the added problems it would bring. only to get a irish passport back a week later. The guy in the passport office obviously wasn't going to deny a national hero

To my knowledge, FIFA have never "insisted that players hold the passport of the country they play for" (as an aside it's impossible to do so for Wales, Scotland, Norn Iron and England) and Cascarino *was* qualified for Ireland (his wikipedia page and articles since his retirement and "confession" of ineligibility (made when he had a book to promote) certainly state so).

Where did you get the above from?

[Bored Of Education]

Gary Speed

It doesn't fill me with anticipation but does it matter what we think of how a friend of his chooses to pay tribute to Speed?

Yes, it's similar to the Billy Sharp celebration in that respect, isn't it? I am sure that if Savage was still playing football, we would have paid tribute at a match but this is what he is doing now. As it was, he only mentioned it in passing

[Bored Of Education]

Gary Speed

You do wonder how far they go with this. I am not sure about Ireland but, over here, when a child is adopted, they get a new birth certificate not unlike the duplicate ones you get if you lose your original one. As such, they don't have any parents' details, jut the child's date and place of birth. Now I am not sure whether they used to this or, indeed, still do in Ireland but it woudl certainly muddy the waters.

More to the point, you wonder what would have happened to Cascarino if any ineligibility had come to rise while he was still playing for Ireland. I think, in that case, they may have banned him (unless all the other countries in FIFA bandies together and said 'It's only Cascarino, it doesn't matter"). However, if it happened in the home nations, it would be a different story, I expect, as it is only a gentleman's agreement between the four nations, as I understand it.

[Sean of the Shed]

Gary Speed

This article seems to explain that situation. Although there is no citizenship beyond that of being British, players can choose to play for the individual country of their birth, either of their parent's birth, or any of their grandparent's birth, so if they, their parents and grandparents were all born in Scotland, for example, then, under that agreement, that player could only play for Scotland.
Any player with British citizenship who is born outside of the UK can choose to play for any of the home nations, such as Maik Taylor, who was born in Germany and whose father was in the British army stationed in Germany and who had married a German woman. Taylor chose to play for Northern Ireland, but would have been eligible for any of the home nations as well as Germany

[rick derris]

Gary Speed

Where did you get the above from?

it was in his book

[G-Man]

Gary Speed

I'm waiting for this thread to hit page 11. Whenever I open it, it reads "Gary Speed" and then "what a cunt"... Very disconcerting.

[Antepli Ejderha]

Gary Speed

G.Man wrote:

I'm waiting for this thread to hit page 11. Whenever I open it, it reads "Gary Speed" and then "what a cunt"... Very disconcerting.

Perhaps I can ease it forward, not Speed related but on eligibility for the four home nations, does residency ever count for players born inside the UK?