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No More Sarri - Premier League 2019/20

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    Originally posted by Sporting View Post

    Should Man Utd's last minute pen vs PSG have been given? (Non sequitur but interested in your view.)
    I watched that game with a load of French Canadians in a poolside bar in Cuba and had been telling the increasingly celebratory PSG fans that United always scored in the last minute, so when that was given I felt a frisson of "told you so" as they all howled in despair at the injustice.

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      accurate is measurable, worse is just like, your opinion man.

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        Happy New Year.

        New business: The collars on these Chelsea kits are truly terrible. I also imagine that many TVs are also struggling with the saturation of those orange socks. Blech.

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          Originally posted by Sporting View Post

          Should Man Utd's last minute pen vs PSG have been given? (Non sequitur but interested in your view.)
          Thomas Teuchel's take was having spent years calling for the introduction of VAR he wasn't going to give out about it when it went against him.

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            Originally posted by hobbes View Post
            (To anton) But you’re argument is redundant. Given we all know it wil never be perfect to an atomic level, the question becomes “is it substantially more accurate?” Which it demonstrably is.
            most of the arguments about disallowed goals have been “well he was only a tiny bit offside.”
            I know you have trouble separating reality from fantasy when it comes to Ajax, we’re all guilty of that to some degree. We all have “they fucked us” stories. Liverpool would have won the league in 2014 if Stirling’s goal against Man City had stood. He was 2 or 3 yards onside and (I think) in his own half. Linesman flagged for offside erroneously. City drew the game and won the league by 2 points. Thing is, that was the best they could do then. The best they could do is now better. So Chelsea got the rub of the green this time.
            If anything, by saying that VAR is not infallible, I am acknowledging that there is an element of lottery/luck in football, a margin within which VAR is not capable of judging. The authorities need to acknowledge that as well.

            I bring up the Ajax example because it is the main example that I know of of VAR getting it totally wrong by pretending that it can judge within margins that it can not. I tend to watch more Ajax matches than other teams, so I am more likely to notice it.
            ​On the night it worked against Ajax. If a similar decision were to work out in Ajax's favour then it would be equally wrong. (My beef with Chelsea is that a cascade of decisions went their way, and the head of Chelsea has a documented history of bribing various legal authorities, and that football authorities have a documented history of taking bribes. But that is another discussion altogether.)

            I am not against VAR in principle. As I say, it should be used as an aid, but not a magic wand. It has the potential to augment the human abilities of the referee and help overturn obvious mistakes and poor calls. I'm all for that. It would be a definite improvement to the game.
            ​​​​But like a referee, VAR has its own limitations. However, the beauty about it being a piece of technology, and not a human, is that its limitations and uncertainty can be quantified, jus like how a thermometer or weighing scale can report a value ± a certain uncertainty.
            ​​​​​There's no reason why the VAR judges can't just return "no further information, go with the decision on the field". We know that it is not technically possible with normal TV cameras to judge within the margins that they are trying to do, so why are they doing it? Do a scientific study of all the uncertainties and define the margins, and operate within the framework of those margins. Anything else is down to luck, and luck is a part of the beauty of the game.

            ​​

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              Originally posted by matt j View Post
              Happy New Year.

              New business: The collars on these Chelsea kits are truly terrible. I also imagine that many TVs are also struggling with the saturation of those orange socks. Blech.
              Why do we as humans use the improvement in technology to behave in ways that generate the old problems at a new, higher more intense level?

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                Was bang inline for Villa's disallowed goal. Absolutely no one thought that it was offside.

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                  Because it wasn't. Yet another perfectly good goal disallowed several minutes later due to VAR. Football is a sport, not a science, and VAR is ruining it. Not only does it destroy the spontaneity of celebrating a goal, only to find after an interminable delay that someone's ear lobe was 3mm offside, it is also a nonsense in that it is physically impossible to deliver decisions with the degree of accuracy claimed by its proponents, since this involves multiple moving targets and judgements to the millisecond. I'm all in favour of VAR to judge whether the ball crosses the line for a goal, which is a comparatively simple mechanical fact. Using it for subjective decisions such as fouls, or microscopic assessments of 'offside' is a ludicrous waste of time and effort which undermines the authority of the match officials and yet still doesn't improve the quality of the decisions. In fact, if VAR is to be applied in its current guise, why do we need 'assistant referees' at all? Surely VAR can indicate when a ball has crossed the line for a throw or goal-kick / corner, and the referee can decide who touched it last. If a goal is scored following an 'offside', no matter how miniscule, VAR will be used to overturn it, and if the 'offside' doesn't lead to a goal then play may as well continue. I've been watching football for nearly fifty years, and nothing has ever enraged me to this degree, that I can't even face watching my team play any more, and have turned BT Sport off in disgust. Remember when Law 5 actually meant something?

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                    Football is a sport, not a science, and VAR is ruining it.
                    Science is all about error bars and quantifying the uncertainty, and not interpreting within that uncertainty. If anything, a more scientific approach would be better.

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                      Whether the ball crosses the line isn’t determined by VAR in any case.

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                        Rather splendid equaliser for Brighton against Chelsea.

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                          Clarets could have played the second half like Brazil 1970 and still deserved to lose that

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                            Originally posted by Snake Plissken View Post
                            Clarets could have played the second half like Brazil 1970 and still deserved to lose that
                            You lost it with the first half performance Snake. Wesley's goal looked a cracker and "both" Grealish goals were superb... hopefully we can push on. Fingers crossed that Heaton and Wesley aren't badly injured.

                            Also good to see Mings back v the "Mingsy" imposter that had taken his place since he became an England regular.

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                              Originally posted by Jah Womble View Post
                              Whether the ball crosses the line isn’t determined by VAR in any case.
                              Yes, I know, but I was in mid-rant and failed to observe the minutiae. Should have said 'technology' to judge whether a goal has been scored. Mea culpa.

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                                Doesn't alter the fact that VAR is a pile of guano.

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                                  Nigel Pearson is doing a decent job at Watford, eh?

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                                    Norwich as ever playing really well in the first half, going 1-0 up and missing chances. Just hoping the second half doesn't follow our usual pattern of chucking a lead away and running out of gas.

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                                      Southampton have a goal difference of-13, nine of them conceded in a single match.

                                      At the beginning of December the bottom three looked doomed now it's looking like 3 from 11, Palace and below.

                                      I'm sure this shows the competitiveness and quality of the Premier League.

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                                        Originally posted by Arturo View Post
                                        Norwich as ever playing really well in the first half, going 1-0 up and missing chances. Just hoping the second half doesn't follow our usual pattern of chucking a lead away and running out of gas.
                                        Well called.

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                                          Bollocks. Every time.
                                          Last edited by Arturo; 01-01-2020, 19:00.

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                                            What is going on with Bournemouth these days? They seem to be losing a lot of games.

                                            10 points from 4 games for Pearson at Watford. At this rate they'll qualify for Europe.

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                                              Bournemouth have an injury crisis apparently. That's the reason given for recalling Surridge from us.

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                                                Also Eddie Howe's teams have always gone streaks of winning and losing.

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                                                  Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
                                                  Southampton have a goal difference of-13, nine of them conceded in a single match.

                                                  At the beginning of December the bottom three looked doomed now it's looking like 3 from 11, Palace and below.

                                                  I'm sure this shows the competitiveness and quality of the Premier League.
                                                  Either The Guardian or the BBC had an article with a difference between the actual table and that from expected Goals in each match. Southampton were the side with the biggest differential between their actual position and where that metric would have predicted them to be. Which was fifth, above Leicester and Wolves. What that shows is the Saints have been creating (what the people who measure xG consider) good goal scoring chances, but being profligate. However their recent run would also suggest a reversion to the mean - they had bad luck earlier in the campaign with chance conversion, and that is now being balanced out. And as a result, the Saints are climbing the table, which is what the xG crowd would have expected them to do.

                                                  It also suggests the 0-9 was even more of an aberration than it appeared at the time. Which was aberration enough.

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                                                    Post 1242 on this thread has a link to that from NS

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