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No More Sarri - Premier League 2019/20

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    Liverpool went to sleep for that Wolves "goal". They deserved to concede it just for that.

    To be honest, that hasn't really helped Liverpool any either. Wolves are going to be so fired up for this second half now they'll be like a pack of angry, well, Wolves.

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      Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
      Liverpool went to sleep for that Wolves "goal". They deserved to concede it just for that.

      To be honest, that hasn't really helped Liverpool any either. Wolves are going to be so fired up for this second half now they'll be like a pack of angry, well, Wolves.
      Oh, I think two vital VAR decisions going your way help all right.

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        Rogin's partisan positioning is only wrapped in cellophane.

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          Why did Man City v Sheff U kick off at 6pm given I can't see it being televised anywhere? Overseas markets?

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            Originally posted by Tony C View Post

            Oh, I think two vital VAR decisions going your way help all right.
            Not as much as a referee actually threading a pass through for a goal, though.

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              Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
              Why did Man City v Sheff U kick off at 6pm given I can't see it being televised anywhere? Overseas markets?
              On a streaming channel here, for example.

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                Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post

                Not as much as a referee actually threading a pass through for a goal, though.
                I'm not trying to pretend it didn't help, though.

                And maybe stay off the whataboutery in 'getting the breaks' conversations.

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                  So these VAR people claim not only that they can freeze the frame at the exact moment the ball leaves the foot of the person giving the assist, but that they can freeze it so exactly that they can judge offside within precision of inches. They should be at NASA, they are absolutely wasted in football.

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                    Personally I'm finding the 2019 "Two Bald Men Fighting Over A Comb" championship more entertaining than the football.

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                      One thing I don't understand, you're not allowed to touch the ball with your hands, so how can your hand be offside?

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                        Timu Pukki's pubes were offside yesterday, although I suppose technically you could score with them.

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                          Apparently they are judging it at the armpit.

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                            TV broadcast is, what? 30 frames per second? They can't catch the exact moment the ball leaves the foot even if they wanted to.

                            There's a reason why track and field uses those special ultra high-resolution cameras to determine the winner at a photo finish.

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                              I’m thoroughly enjoying VAR precisely for the outrage it’s provoking in Some of you.
                              It’s like the olden days when people tried to make out that diving was worse than dangerous tackling.

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                                Originally posted by Toby Gymshorts View Post
                                Timu Pukki's pubes were offside yesterday, although I suppose technically you could score with them.
                                That's an image that will stay with me.
                                Last edited by Arturo; 29-12-2019, 20:27.

                                Comment


                                  Originally posted by hobbes View Post
                                  I’m thoroughly enjoying VAR precisely for the outrage it’s provoking in Some of you.
                                  It’s like the olden days when people tried to make out that diving was worse than dangerous tackling.
                                  I do hate it and I've ranted loudly on here, but you'd love some of the Norwich forums right now. There are fans who genuinely think we're going down purely due to a Premier League/Sky conspiracy. There's even a "some bloke in the back of my cab" story which conclusively proves we're not wanted in the top flight. Apparently.

                                  Nothing to do with the fact that we can't hold a lead, that we bought/loaned freebie duds in the summer, or that we're blowing out of our arses every week by the 70th minute.

                                  But yeah, it's still a pile of shite though.

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                                    The "It's not football any more" chant is becoming more obvious in the coverage.

                                    The conventional wisdom was that video was going to save football from stupid refereeing mistakes. Says a lot about conventional wisdom.

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                                      If VAR was being used sparingly to rectify obvious and egregious refereeing errors we'd all be happy with it. The main issue is that it's being used to chalk off goals for offsides so fractional that TV pundits used to ignore them with a shrug of the shoulders if they even bothered to comment on them in the past and fans would accept them as the players were "basically level". But VAR now enables us, with a questionable degree of certainty, to analyse the build-up to goals and disallow them for infinitesimal infractions. In short, the law is being correctly applied but we don't like it very much.

                                      Tricky.

                                      I'd suggest that we don't use VAR for offsides until the technology has improved to the extent that the analysis is performed not by a bunch of officials in Stockley Park but by a Hawkeye-like device that instantly advises the referee on the pitch if there was an offside in the build-up to the goal in the same way that he or she is advised if the ball has crossed the goal-line.
                                      Last edited by Nocturnal Submission; 30-12-2019, 01:55.

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                                        Somebody linked an article about how they do the offsides. Compared to what NASA do, it's very simple. There are a large number of cameras feeding into to a massive computer that generates a high resolution 3-d model, and that's what they run it off. So the answer is yes, they know pretty much exactly when the ball is kicked, and they know where everyone is. The problem is they've never really bothered to explain this. so people lthink they are doing it with microsoft paint. The offsides are the least contentious bit about VAR. Jamie redknapp was giving it socks about the pukki offside last night essentially suggesting that it should be the feet that should count because they are the bits you score with, and almost before he had finished that sentence, Kelly dalglish deftly cut right across him, and gently asked him "What if the bit of the player that is offside, is the bit that they control the ball with, like pukki tonight." and jamie pauses for a split second as the implications of her question flash before his eyes, before coming out with a stream of non-aggressive gibberish. If you weren't paying attention, you'd have missed that she had chopped him off at the knees and effectively accused him of talking nonsense. It was almost like she was channelling Bill O'herlihy gently putting a spoke in Eamon Dunphy's rhetorical wheel.

                                        the fidelity of this system is not perfect, because nothing is, but it's a quantum leap beyond what a human linesman can see. In this context questioning its accuracy isn't really about questioning its accuracy, it's about wanting it to be done by humans. My feeling is that it has become far to fast for that, and I',m coming from a position where I think that linesmen are akin to wizards.
                                        Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 30-12-2019, 02:18.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
                                          If VAR was being used sparingly to rectify obvious and egregious refereeing errors we'd all be happy with it. The main issue is that it's being used to chalk off goals for offsides so fractional that TV pundits used to ignore them with a shrug of the shoulders if they even bothered to comment on them in the past and fans would accept them as the players were "basically level". But VAR now enables us, with a questionable degree of certainty, to analyse the build-up to goals and disallow them for infinitesimal infractions. In short, the law is being correctly applied but we don't like it very much.

                                          Tricky.

                                          I'd suggest that we don't use VAR for offsides until the technology has improved to the extent that the analysis is performed not by a bunch of officials in Stockley Park but by a Hawkeye-like device that instantly advises the referee on the pitch if there was an offside in the build-up to the goal in the same way that he or she is advised if the ball has crossed the goal-line.
                                          Well the simple solution to that is to follow the 'umpire's call' method employed in cricket. If an offside mistake is not immediately apparent within a couple of seconds of looking at a still image, then stick with the onfield decision. As you say it should be there to rectify major mistakes, not armpits, toes or pubes.

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                                            Somebody linked an article about how they do the offsides. Compared to what NASA do, it's very simple. There are a large number of cameras feeding into to a massive computer that generates a high resolution 3-d model, and that's what they run it off. So the answer is yes, they know pretty much exactly when the ball is kicked, and they know where everyone is. The problem is they've never really bothered to explain this. so people lthink they are doing it with microsoft paint.
                                            Then that - or an appropriation of it - is what the public needs to be seeing. As opposed to the one image that's as clear as cotton wool in a cloud bank.

                                            And for the love of God, refs - consult the bloody touchline screen.

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                                              Change the offside law. Change the handball law.

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                                                Are the “massive number of cameras” generating VAR the ones you can hear rapidly clicking during goalmouth action sometimes now? I first noticed that at the bit where the ball ends up with Origi in the CL final but it was also noticeable yesterday on a couple of occasions in the second half.

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                                                  I think there's a need to look at other sports and how they use technology plus introduce a cricket or tennis style rule on the number of challenges. At the moment it appears that VAR is being used to rule out goals for minute reasons rather than as an aid to the referee.

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                                                    No those are still cameras on burst mode. Something like a Nikon D5 can take up to 14 pictures a second. I imagine that they are the camera set up behind the goal line and are remotely triggered by the photographer. They are loud but I think they sound louder becasue they are close to the goal mics.

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