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Hollerbach's Knackwurst - Bundesliga 2019/20

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    The first incident was yesterday, wasn't it?

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      Dortmund were outplayed at Schalke so lucky to walk away with 0-0. Dortmund are starting to feel a bit like Roma: they will play for a coach for a couple years and then start to drift. "Starting to drift" would be a much too kind summary of Roma's antics over the years so Dortmund seem salvageable but the talent is too great to be playing like this (even with the bringing back of players that should never have been brought back).

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        Originally posted by Nocturnal Submission View Post
        The first incident was yesterday, wasn't it?
        Friday actually. The incident rightly belongs in the Refereeing Thread in one of imp's things-that-are-never-likely-to-happen-but-you-are-going-to-be-tested-on-anyway quizzes along with "players from both sides other than the 'keeper and the penalty-taker are in the penalty area when the penalty is taken; what do you do?"

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          Originally posted by G-Man View Post
          Bizarre stuff also in Mainz, where the VAR alerted the ref to a clear Mainz handball in the penalty area. The ref went to look at it on the monitor and inexplicably decided to give no penalty. That would have given Köln the chance to make it 2-2; they went on to lose 3-1.
          The DFB have issued a statement saying that the ref fucked it up, but no word from the ref what he was thinking.

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            Maybe it was his personal "Fuck VAR" statement?

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              I only have one comment to make:

              Immer wieder, immer wieder, IMMER WIEDER VFL

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                Well yes.there isn't much doubt now.

                Though I wouls not have taken you for one eager to dance in a Traditionsverein's grave.

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                  I have no idea what that refers to, but talking of Traditionsvereine: Kaiserslautern is now in a relegation place in the 3. Liga. Much as I never loved that club, I really want them to come back up again.

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                    Originally posted by Capybara View Post

                    Friday actually. The incident rightly belongs in the Refereeing Thread in one of imp's things-that-are-never-likely-to-happen-but-you-are-going-to-be-tested-on-anyway quizzes along with "players from both sides other than the 'keeper and the penalty-taker are in the penalty area when the penalty is taken; what do you do?"
                    Ha ha, that's exactly what I thought when I saw it - we've definitely had that question in several variations before. Of course in real life, especially at my level, you'd just ignore it, which is what everyone at Kiel did except the VAR, probably sensing his or her big moment had come. "Ooh ooh! I saw that and nobody else did! That's a penalty, that is! Look, look, right there, his toe is over the line by half an inch, stop the screen - see see, right there! Penalty! Penalty!"

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                      Ordnung muss sein. As a German you should appreciate that.

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                        Originally posted by G-Man View Post
                        The most bizarre penalty was awarded in the 2. Bundesliga today. Warming up behind the goal, a Holstein Kiel substitute stopped a goal from going out. The penalty gave Bochum an equaliser, but Kiel went on to win 2-1.

                        A bizarre red card was given to Hannover goalie Ron-Robert Zieler. Trying to punch away the ball, as goalkeepers are wont to do, he connected with a Karlsruhe striker. Happily the red card came in injury time (which had already produced two goals) and didn't change the score.

                        Bizarre stuff also in Mainz, where the VAR alerted the ref to a clear Mainz handball in the penalty area. The ref went to look at it on the monitor and inexplicably decided to give no penalty. That would have given Köln the chance to make it 2-2; they went on to lose 3-1.

                        It was a 2nd yellow rather than a straight red for Zieler.

                        Absolutely crazy game to go to. I was there with a friend as part of our hockey/football sports weekender. Got the train down from Mannheim and we managed to take the wrong exit out of the station. Found ourselves in the penned off area for away fans to congregate in whilst waiting for the stadium buses to fill. Some of the fans decided to walk to the ground en mass - Hannover took a decent travelling support with them and many had changed trains in Mannheim so were on our train. For a good 10-15 minutes whilst waiting for the rest of the visiting fans to turn up it was me, my friend and about a dozen cops in riot gear sitting on the bus. A further 40 cops were milling about the waiting area to encourage the travelling Hannover fans onto the waiting buses. We had tickets for the home end and, on the advice of one particularly helpful cop, were told that we'd be absolutely fine on the bus despite having home tickets, so long as we didnt get mistaken for home fans. I had my Dumbarton scarf on for that very reason.

                        Karlsruhe's ground is in a really lovely setting but it's currently being redeveloped and the capacity was capped. The home fans occupied a large stehplatz behind one of the goals whilst visiting Hannover fans were accommodated in what looked to be a temporary uncovered structure behind the opposite goal that was part standing and part sitting. A main stand ran the length of 1 of the touchlines and that was were we were sitting. I'm sure that it'll be great when it's fully rebuilt but you can't help but feel that it'll take some of the charm away from the old stadium. There is plenty of land around the ground on 3 sides to develop fan areas but that would have to be done sympathetically as the ground sits one the edge of the Karlsruhe palace park.

                        The game itself wasn't high quality. Plenty of effort from most of the players but Hannover were the stronger side for more of the game. Both teams were awarded penalties (both correct decisions) which they converted. I thought that the home side lacked composure at times and was surprised to see Choi Kyoung-rok given ample time to play a number of wasteful passes or make ultimately futile runs at the Hannover defence. Veteran centre half Daniel Gordon was the best player for the home side and his 2 goals would prove to be vital in the game. Hannover looked to have bagged all 3 points with a late goal from Hendrik Weydandt - his 2nd of the game - in the 3rd minute of injury time. Gordon had other ideas and it was his 2nd of the game that earned the home side a share of the points with a late run into the box allowing him to connect with a loose ball just outside the 6 yard box and hammer it past the helpless Zieler.

                        The 2nd yellow was crazy. Zieler was clearly angry that he was beaten and that Gordon had been able to make his run from deep to get his shot on goal. As he turned and aimed a wild punch at the ball that had rebounded out of the net and back towards him, he managed to catch a Karlsruher player who had ran across the box behind him to celebrate with goal scorer Gordon. It looked like a low blow to a rather sensitive area and it's arguable that Zieler could perhaps have got a straight red. Clearly unintentional as there's no way Zieler was deliberately aiming a punch at the Karlsruher player but he did make clear contact with his opponent.

                        Perhaps a bit fortunate for the home team. Hannover probably deserved all 3 points as they seemed to have the best of the possession and created some good chances. As a neutral at the game I'd absolutely applaud the way that the Karlsruher players fought right to the end of the game but Hannover were the better side over the 90 minutes. Probably fitting that it was the 5 minutes of injury time that packed in so much action. If nothing else it was a fitting reward for the home fans behind the unfortunate Zieler who had provided their team with fantastic backing throughout the match. For a 2nd division game it was impressive to see the ground, albeit with a reduced capacity, essentially full. I originally settled for Karlsruher SC v Hannover 96 as my 3rd choice game due to the Mainz game being moved to the Friday (clashing with my hockey game) and Freiburg v Leipzig selling out. I certainly can't argue with an overall entertaining game in the 2nd tier and a visit to a really great city.

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                          Saarbrücken's ground looks amazing. A completely open, completely packed athletics stadium.

                          There is a cherry picker behind a goal with a camera on it.

                          Thomas Müller looks like a dick. I feel sorry for Bochum who have just lost after going up in the first half only to end up a goal and a player down.

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                            Originally posted by Levin View Post
                            Saarbrücken's ground looks amazing. A completely open, completely packed athletics stadium.

                            There is a cherry picker behind a goal with a camera on it..
                            If it's the stadium in which my side suffered the latest humiliation, then that was in Völklingen. The Ludwigsstadion in Saarbrücken is being renovated, though that is a rather airy athletics stadium.

                            I expect Saarbrücken to do well in the 3. Liga next year.

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                              K'lauten Nürnberg had everything.

                              Including a sneaky goal and an outfield player in goal for a penalty shootout.

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                                Ah, yes G Man, it was the Köln game I saw highlights of.

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                                  https://twitter.com/ftamsut/status/1189631830410059776

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                                    Although there's a minority of knuckleheads among Dynamo Dresden's support, I'm always impressed by their away turnout.

                                    In the third division, they'd usually bring about 5,000 to Munich. That's a long journey.

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                                      Cracking two nights of cup football, including fourth division Saarbrücken and Verl making it into the last 16, and hopefully an income boost for Kaiserslautern if they can land a plum home tie against Bayern or Dortmund in the next round. I definitely enjoyed the games more for there being no VAR.

                                      Love G-Man bigging Saarbrücken up as a "third division" side in advance to try and disguise that Cologne lost to a fourth-tier team. Don't worry, lad, you'll have the opportunity to get revenge when you play them in division 2 (or 3) in a couple of years.

                                      Also wish I was a headline writer on an English-language newspaper covering German football, so that I could caption a picture of SC Verl's Robin Brüseke saving the crucial spot-kick against Nürnberg with: "For he's a jolly good Verler." Alas, I feel that this career opportunity will never arise.

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                                        Originally posted by imp View Post
                                        Love G-Man bigging Saarbrücken up as a "third division" side in advance to try and disguise that Cologne lost to a fourth-tier team. Don't worry, lad, you'll have the opportunity to get revenge when you play them in division 2 (or 3) in a couple of years.
                                        Hold on, you are bigging them up as well, right there. I reckon that we'll see them in the 2. Liga in two years time. This Köln side needs a total overhaul. So next season Saarbrücken will be promoted again, while Köln rebuilds the team and finishes 5th.

                                        I don't know if meeting Saarbrücken would be an occasion for "revenge". Revenge should be taken on the lazy fucks of the Karnevalsverein who don't run and don't tackle, and who concede injury time goals from their own throw-in.

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                                          Originally posted by G-Man View Post

                                          Hold on, you are bigging them up as well, right there.
                                          Heh heh, fair point.

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                                            That was a fantastic result for Kaiserslautern - and they definitely will be hoping to get one of the big clubs in the next round. Home tie, TV money, that should pay off the contract of at least some of the managers they've hired and fired over the past few years.

                                            I watched St Pauli-Frankfurt (now that I've discovered the official DFB channel on Youtube broadcasts DFB Pokal matches too over here), that was an entertaining game too. Bas Dost is a funny one: he lopes around in a slightly ungainly fashion, doesn't have any appreciable turn of speed, yet morphs into a deadly finisher in the penalty area. His two goals were both beautifully taken, one a header diverted beyond the keeper's reach and then a deft chip after he sprang the offside trap.

                                            Meanwhile, sad news down in the Regionalliga West: Wattenscheid 09 have gone bust. They have withdrawn from the league and no-one seems to have any idea if they'll be back in a lower division next season. The youth teams must be in a separate structure of some sort, as I think they will continue playing, so that will give the fans somewhere to start from if (as I assume they will) they intend to start a phoenix club in the Landesliga or something like that. Peter Neururer is involved in this whole unseemly mess somehow, I think he was hired as director of football earlier in 2019 by the latest in a series of local businessmen who have tried to burnish their reputation by taking over the club and promising to return it to the dizzy heights reached in the 90s. Unsurprisingly, this businessman turned off the money tap, Neururer resigned, no other sponsors were found, and now the lights have gone out at the Lorheide.

                                            Amazing that this doesn't actually happen more often at this level of football in Germany. The Regionalliga is a money pit, the costs are immense as it is de facto the fourth tier of professional football, but the DFB still regards it as technically an amateur league. There is hardly any money to be made from TV rights or sponsoring, but Wattenscheid apparently had a budget of well over €500k for the season, an amount that they, in the end, could not stump up and nor can many other clubs at that level - and of course, just spending the money doesn't guarantee success.
                                            Last edited by JVL; 01-11-2019, 16:09.

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                                              Originally posted by JVL View Post
                                              Meanwhile, sad news down in the Regionalliga West: Wattenscheid 09 have gone bust. They have withdrawn from the league and no-one seems to have any idea if they'll be back in a lower division next season. The youth teams must be in a separate structure of some sort, as I think they will continue playing, so that will give the fans somewhere to start from if (as I assume they will) they intend to start a phoenix club in the Landesliga or something like that. Peter Neururer is involved in this whole unseemly mess somehow, I think he was hired as director of football earlier in 2019 by the latest in a series of local businessmen who have tried to burnish their reputation by taking over the club and promising to return it to the dizzy heights reached in the 90s. Unsurprisingly, this businessman turned off the money tap, Neururer resigned, no other sponsors were found, and now the lights have gone out at the Lorheide.
                                              Thanks for that background. I was at Wattenscheid only 6 weeks ago (brief report in the relevant Weekend Matchgoing thread) and it wasn't apparent there was anything going on so I was surprised when I read earlier in the week that they'd gone.

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                                                Bwa-ha-ha-ha.

                                                Haching are top of the 3. Lisa too

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                                                  Were you at the game imp?

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                                                    After a lucky 0-0 at Schalke, Dortmund responded with a big mid-week win in the cup (Gladbach) and now a solid win today hosting Wolfsburg. Next week is away to Bayern, which I expect will be a big loss.

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