Hollerbach's Knackwurst - Bundesliga 2019/20

[G-Man]

Ibisevic is still at Hertha, I think. So is Kalou after his deal to go to Villa fell though. Both are old, so replacing them isn't entirely idiotic (though having Ibisevic on the bench shoukd be a boon). But emphatically getting rid of Selke and the promising Löwen seems ... short-sighted.

[Janik]

Quiet little game between Leverkusen and Dortmund. Leverkusen scored two in three minutes about five/ten minutes ago to go from 2-3 down to 4-3 up. Just heading into stoppage time. Haaland hasn't scored. Yet...

[Janik]

Witsel just missed a sitter to make it 4-4

[ursus arctos]

Pure entertainment

[Janik]

Finished. Boooo! More! More!!

4-3 in the end.

[imp]

That was a belter, just like Werder-Dortmund in the cup midweek. I hope the Dortmund defence continues to be this obliging when Eintracht come to town on Friday. More likely that they'll rip us to shreds, though.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Bremen are in a real death spiral. They've got no scoring ability whatsoever, Union ate their lunch today.

[danielmak]

Dortmund had a crazy week. Hummels at it again: excellent passing, head finds the ball, and defense is crap. But the player that drove me nuts this week is Witsel. He missed 5-6 chances this week. All were shot or headed over the bar. I know it's easy for me to sit on the couch and ask why he is blasting the ball from underneath or heading the ball up when he's near the line instead of kicking the ball down or heading down. At the same time, he's a professional. The movement of heading or trying to kick across the ball or down on the ball should be second nature for a guy of his skill level.

[G-Man]

Gladbach vs Köln called off because of the storm. That's a bad break for Köln, since Gladbach were missing star striker Pléa through suspension and Kramer through injury. Kramer tends to be specially motivated against Köln, having played for Leverkusen and Düsseldorf as well.

[G-Man]

Yesterday at the Hertha game, masses of supporters held up the number 25 in solidarity with defender Jordan Torunarigha, who was racially abused at Schalke in mid-week (a player who has represented Germany at every youth level!). Schalke also made all the right noises about racism being incompatible with the club's values blah blah blah.

Except, the Toennies affair demonstrated no such incompatibility. It showed tolerance of racism, by Schalke and the DFB. The club's greywashing of Toennies enabled the raism that came from its stands.

But, as in England -- where cigarette lighters can be thrown at the heads of black players while they are being racially abused -- all we get from clubs and officialdom is handwringing displays of dismay about all this bad racism which doesn't reflect the value of club or authorities.

A few clubs have acted. Chemnitz (Torunarigha's city of birth, incidentally) have taken decisive action by sacking their right-wing captain. At some clubs, like FC Köln, the ultras and club cooperate to effectively police racist behaviour.

[imp]

A few clubs have acted. Chemnitz (Torunarigha's city of birth, incidentally) have taken decisive action by sacking their right-wing captain. At some clubs, like FC Köln, the ultras and club cooperate to effectively police racist behaviour.

That would be Daniel Frahn, who's remarkably now signed with the Regionalliga Nordost's answer to St. Pauli, the conspicuously anti-fascist SV Babelsberg 03. True, he was there for several years as a young man (2007-10), so they know him there, but it's a bit like Paolo di Canio joining Dulwich Hamlet. But club officials said that after talking to him they accepted his "version of events", and fan protests have been restricted to one of the smaller ultra groups turning its flag round the wrong way on the pitch-surround. Frahn: "I know there are critics - and with some justification, but I hope these people will give me the chance to prove who Daniel Frahn really is. And that's not the person who's been depicted in the newspapers. In the past I've made mistakes. I didn't ask enough questions about people, backgrounds and certain situations... but I'm not a Nazi and distance myself clearly from right-wing thinking and from people with that political outlook." He will be accepting questions at a public fan forum on Thursday.

[ursus arctos]

Bayern - Crap Energy Drink has been played at a blistering pace.

Scoreless after 55 minutes, with the VAR just saving the ref after he missed Lewandowski being well offside just before he was tripped for a "penalty".

The protocol continues to work better in Germany than anywhere else

[Amor de Cosmos]

A brilliant match between the two most disliked teams in Germany (apparently.) As previously noted I really like watching Leipzig, they're both intelligent and fun to watch in spite of their sponsor. OTOH I, and fair few other Vancouverites, feel we have a vested interest in Phonzie Davies. Neither disappointed. A really magnificent end to end match. Werner should have won it after missing a goal he'd normally score with his eyes closed, but 0–0 was a fair result.

[ursus arctos]

Very much so.

And perhaps the best result from a match where I very much wanted both clubs to lose.

Leipzig are sort of like an old city political machine - they obviously got where they are through nefarious means, but they do a good job of providing basic services and have a certain style,

[Amor de Cosmos]

Do you have any evidence, or thoughts, on Leipzig's nefariousness? AFAIK they're not run like Man City or PSG's chain of feeder clubs. RB are all about brand recognition aren't they, not buying every expensive player in sight? Though they didn't win today they wrested the tempo away from Bayern, their game management and match pacing was superb I thought.

[ursus arctos]

I suggest that you read the extensive "history" section of the Wiki, which is more balanced than what I would write (while still capturing the essence, though it could be more explicit about the ways they have evaded the 50+1 rule, which is covered in "Criticism")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RB_Leipzig

[G-Man]

Nefarious would be stretching it, but the accusation of financial doping holds water.

But they are distorting football by transgressing the limitations almost all other clubs have to contend with under the 50+1 ownership model (which ensures that clubs are member-controlled). That is a problem with Hoffenheim as well. Financial doping makes the competition unequal. Effectively, the financially-doped clubs have taken the places of club that try to compete on their own strength.

With Hoffenheim, there's the mitigating circumstance that the club is a vanity project, whereas with Leipzig the football is a means to a commercial end. Where other clubs exist to play football, Leipzig exists solely to flog a product, distorting competition in doing so.

50+1 is massively important to most committed fans. Leipzig's existence and success undermines that model, to the extent that the notion that Bundesliga clubs should dump the model and have investors take control is gaining in support. That is seen, absolutely correctly, as the first step to destroying the fan-centred culture of German football. The rampant commodification of football is a cancer in all countries where it has taken root, and the Bundesliga has not been immune to that. But 50+1 is a mitigating influence against that. Red Bull, on the other hand, is the poison in the system.

[ursus arctos]

Well, that more than meets my requirements for "nefarious", but I understand that others' mileage may vary

The Wiki is helpful at bringing together in a relatively concise way just how all-consuming the "project" was - half a dozen cities all over Germany, multiple clubs targeted for takeover, repeated efforts to do the bare minimum to get over any line that the authorities drew (while lobbying them hard to move the line).

[Amor de Cosmos]

I suggest that you read the extensive "history" section of the Wiki, which is more balanced than what I would write (while still capturing the essence, though it could be more explicit about the ways they have evaded the 50+1 rule, which is covered in "Criticism")

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RB_Leipzig


Good piece, and I do understand why many people object to the RB concept (though, as noted in the final paragraph, criticism seems to be fading) but I still don't notice any actual nefariousness. As noted elsewhere I'm particularly concerned in light of the Tune group's reported interest in Den Bosch and the possibility is they be looking at building a Watford style "feeder ring. Frankly, if that's the case then I'd much prefer a Leipzig type alternative.

[ursus arctos]

Like Dante, we all have different levels of evil, and they rarely align exactly.

Largely because I grew up with "minor league systems", the feeder club model doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as RB's dedication to undermining the 50+1 rule for over a decade (largely because I consider that rule to be the heart of German football).

[danielmak]

Hoffenheim seemed to be the new public enemy number one until RB came along. I was less bothered by Hoffenheim because as far as I understand it, this is a rich guy who wanted his local club to succeed. Of course, he's puffing up his own ego as the club stormed up the ladder. For me, this is different than Abromovich buying and sinking loads of money into Chelsea because of the home town thing. Hell, if I was a billionaire I might want to own a football team as well.

[ursus arctos]

Genau

Hoffemheim are Walter Mitty with money

Leipzig are Engulf and Devour gmbh

[Snake Plissken]

Klinsmann has resigned at Hertha. Who had ten weeks in the sweepstake?

[CY_Boaby]

But he stays on as a board member. That'll be an interesting next meeting.

[ursus arctos]

Surely this is his last job with a serious club (giving Hertha the benefit of the doubt)