It's a knockout! Playoffs 2019

[statto99]

It would have been great to see Bielsa in the top flight, but I'm not disappointed in last night's result.

I'm glad you're taking it well, ah.

[ad hoc]

I'm glad you're taking it well, ah.

You know statto there's a lot of baggage there (and I as I have said many times, Leeds were in some ways my first team back in the early 70s). But I can't quickly get past some of the more recent Leeds fan stuff.

[statto99]

I can't quickly get past some of the more recent Leeds fan stuff.

?

[ad hoc]

This game stands out https://www.theguardian.com/football...s-leeds-united

[Simon G]

That lad is a bit of a local celebrity in Cheltenham. By that I mean he appeared in the local paper an awful lot after that incident.

Still a complete bellend as well - tries to latch onto Cheltenham games when we have a big one (FA Cup 3rd round ties for example).

[Snake Plissken]

I don;t think it applies to you, but the problem in the big picture sense is that there are large numbers of fans of both your club and mine who somehow have this sense of massive entitlement and believe that you "belong" in the top flight. Leeds fans for the most part seem to still regard Manchester Utd as their principle rival, for example. Wednesday have the same problem too (alluded to by nmrfox above).

I've always said that until the club (and more often, the fanbase) accept that they are no longer a Big Club then they can't start the process of climbing back up the leagues. Wolves, Burnley, arguably Man City and probably several others had to hit the bottom before realising that being a Big Club with a Massive History wasn't worth jack shit when playing away at Gillingham or Rochdale. Only when that arrogance and feeling of having some kind of divine right to be at the top table is knocked out of everybody by circumstance can the rebuilding process begin.

You're never Too Big to be in the division you are in. That's kind of how promotion and relegation works.

[HORN]

You're never Too Big to be in the division you are in. That's kind of how promotion and relegation works.

Newport's forthcoming playoff game raises the polar opposite concern. For a club that barely survives in League Two the prospect of promotion feels quite daunting. We've lost the club once already.

[Ray de Galles]

Unfortunately I will also now have to support FLDC in the final too, mainly due to John Terry, but also Jack Grealish.

Why don't people like Grealish? He's a fantastic player to watch and has obviously had to put up with some really stupid shit this season. I don't find him any more bolshy than most players of his age at his level and he at least has the talent to back it up. I suppose I can understand Irish fans and other West Midlands club supporters disliking him (though Birmingham fans should keep their mouths shut due to recent events) but why would anyone else?

I want Villa to go up because they've been a excellent entertainment since Smith took over, players like Grealish, McGinn, Hourihane, Elmohamady and Adomah are very watchable and I'd like Taylor and Chester to get back to the top flight (assuming they'd be kept and play).

Derby being promoted just means wall to wall Frank Lampard and I dislike teams going up when all their best players are loanees.

[Ray de Galles]

Newport's forthcoming playoff game raises the polar opposite concern. For a club that barely survives in League Two the prospect of promotion feels quite daunting. We've lost the club once already.

Given teams like Wimbledon, Accrington and Wycombe can (just about) survive in D3 then County shouldn't have much to fear.

[Kevin S]

Why don't people like Grealish? He's a fantastic player to watch and has obviously had to put up with some really stupid shit this season. I don't find him any more bolshy than most players of his age at his level and he at least has the talent to back it up. I suppose I can understand Irish fans and other West Midlands club supporters disliking him (though Birmingham fans should keep their mouths shut due to recent events) but why should anyone else?

I want Villa to go up because they've been a excellent entertainment since Smith took over, players like Grealish, McGinn, Hourihane, Elmohamady and Adomah are very watchable and I'd like Taylor and Chester to get back to the top flight (assuming they'd be kept and play).

Derby being promoted just means wall to wall Frank Lampard and I dislike teams going up when all their best players are loanees.

This.

[all new noj]

I agree he's a very good player, but it's all the other stuff; the diving, the gobbing off to the ref. He could be far better without all that. There was a priceless moment the other night when he thought for a second that Brunt wasn't going to be sent off.

Villa do play some good stuff, but they do seem to have an increasing tendency for referee haranguing. Whether that's a Smith thing, or a Terry thing I'm not sure but it leads from the captain on the pitch.

[all new noj]

I should also add that I like to see clubs go up who don't have the parachute payments.

[Ray de Galles]

I agree he's a very good player, but it's all the other stuff; the diving, the gobbing off to the ref. He could be far better without all that. There was a priceless moment the other night when he thought for a second that Brunt wasn't going to be sent off.

Well, given how filthy Brunt had played all game and the amount of red and yellow card he could have racked up by then I think we'd all have had a similar response to Grealish had he got away with that final foul.

As for diving, whenever I see Grealish play he appears to be getting genuinely kicked to fuck by the opposition.

[all new noj]

I completely agree that Brunt should have gone. It was the reaction that made me laugh.

and "genuinely kicked to fuck"? We've been watching different games.

[Hot Orange]

Why don't people like Grealish? He's a fantastic player to watch and has obviously had to put up with some really stupid shit this season. I don't find him any more bolshy than most players of his age at his level and he at least has the talent to back it up. I suppose I can understand Irish fans and other West Midlands club supporters disliking him (though Birmingham fans should keep their mouths shut due to recent events) but why would anyone else?

For me, it's the way he wears his socks halfway down his lower leg.

[jeanmid]

Why don't people like Grealish? He's a fantastic player to watch and has obviously had to put up with some really stupid shit this season. I don't find him any more bolshy than most players of his age at his level and he at least has the talent to back it up. I suppose I can understand Irish fans and other West Midlands club supporters disliking him (though Birmingham fans should keep their mouths shut due to recent events) but why would anyone else?

I want Villa to go up because they've been a excellent entertainment since Smith took over, players like Grealish, McGinn, Hourihane, Elmohamady and Adomah are very watchable and I'd like Taylor and Chester to get back to the top flight (assuming they'd be kept and play).

Derby being promoted just means wall to wall Frank Lampard and I dislike teams going up when all their best players are loanees.

I haven't forgotten that time he stamped on Conor Coady.

[Hot Orange]

Going back to statto's excellent post from last night, I tend to view Ipswich's late-90s period of perennial play-off failure as the high point of my football-supporting experience.

It helps that I've never been one to dwell on a defeat, I suppose, but each season - and the play-off matches themselves, mostly - was exciting and enjoyable. Sure, it was great to finally make it to Wembley, go up and have a successful season in the Premier League, but that always felt temporary and it's been downhill ever since.

[Ray de Galles]

I think I've done this before but I'll offer up the detail of Cardiff's run of season finales to see if anyone can match them for concerted failure on an epic scale :

2008 - Lose FA Cup Final

2009 - Need two points from final four games to secure play-off spot (with automatic promotions still looking possible). Only get one point and miss out on sixth place to Preston by one goal difference, having lost 6-0 to them in one of those final four games.

2010 - Lose play-off final to Blackpool 3-2 after taking the lead twice

2011 - Lose chance of automatic promotion losing 0-3 at home to Boro. Draw away play-off semi-final 0-0 at Reading, lose home leg 0-3.

2012 - Lose League Cup Final on penalties (after Liverpool's first two spot kicks are saved), lose play-off semi-final 5-0 to West Ham on aggregate, rebrand leaked at final whistle of second leg.

[E10 Rifle]

I've seen three play-off final defeats (but no semi-final losses) and two last-day relegations with my lot, though interspersed with a couple of last-day successes.

Never seen us win a Wembley final though, which cheers me as I prepare for this Sunday.

[Hot Orange]

Which reminds me, watching Orient lose at Wembley in 2014 with my dad (a lifelong O) was far more devastating than anything I've experienced as an Ipswich supporter, I think because it really felt like a now-or-never opportunity, for the club and for my dad.

[Fussbudget]

2011 - Lose chance of automatic promotion losing 0-3 at home to Boro.

And if memory serves, we were having a really crap season and had nothing left to play for in that game.

[Ray de Galles]

Looking at the table you finished twelfth so sounds like it.

I should add to the above litany of failure that Swansea won the play off final in 2011 (a year after Cardiff lost it) and won the League Cup Final in 2013 (a year after Cardiff lost it, though I didn't care by then, obvs).

[Simon G]

I remember thinking Cheltenham were playoff specialists having won in 2002 and 2006. Losing to Crewe in 2012, despite appearing (through my biased eyes) to be the much better team, and then in the semi-final a year later to Northampton, has made me side with Statto on this one.

The 2012 one at Wembley was truly devastating, and I wanted out of there as soon as the final whistle went. Hanging around outside Wembley because we'd come down on the coach was just as bad. Losing the following year wasn't nearly as bad. I think it's easier to lose in a semi-final because you're not really that close to promotion. When it comes down to 90 minutes though, that's when the devastation hits.

I also agree that with relegations, the devastation has long been and passed in most cases. When we went down in 2015, all three of Cheltenham, Hartlepool and Tranmere deserved to go down, and when Hartlepool beat us 2-0 in January we kind of knew then the game was up - even though relegation wasn't confirmed until the penultimate game of the season. Relegation itself was a very meh feeling.

[David Agnew]

I seen Ipswich get relegated before Easter Sunday - twice, losing a must win (to stay up) last game of the season 5-0, seven play-off semi-final defeats (one to our local rivals, two on away goals having finished higher, one of which went to extra time having hit the woodwork in injury time)

But that was so much better than the period between 2005 and 2018, when we had one season where we had something to play for in March once. We finished in the dead zone of 12th to 16th eight times. We even managed to finish seventh after a late season flourish after the chances of reaching the playoffs were already gone.

Give me glorious heartbreaking failure over treading water and just existing every time.

[David Agnew]

Jack Grealish is a snidy, cocky, arrogant little prick. Hateful player. The sort of little shit you want in your own team.