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    Could-have-been XI

    International line up for your country featuring players who would have had at least twice as many caps, but for (combination of) terrible luck with injuries, decision to quit international football, idiot managers, laziness, career coinciding with undroppable player, etc.

    Dean Kiely (stuck behind Shay Given for his entire international career. There's an argument to be made that Dean Kiely would have had 100 caps for Ireland otherwise)

    Jim Beglin (just started to establish himself as a top fullback, but then broke his leg)
    Damien Delaney (when Martin O'Neill decides he doesn't like you, that's it. You're out)
    Marc Wilson (seriously reliable defender who is comfortable on the ball. Trap wrongly blamed him for giving him lip in training one day and didn't call him up for three or four years even though he was starting every week in the PL. When Trap finally realised that it was a case of mistaken identity, he finally cameca up Wilson and stuck him in the team. Played brilliantly for about twenty caps, before his career was essentially cut short by injuries)
    Joey O'Brien (brilliant full back who also could play midfield. Comfortable on the ball. Legs made of glass)

    Stephen McPhail (genius midfielder, one of Dave O'Leary's Leeds babies. Injuries took hold and he was never the same)
    Stephen Ireland (more interested in being flash than playing football)
    John Sheridan (a silky skilled midfielder about 10 years ahead of his time. Never understood by Jack Charlton)
    Wes Hoolahan (nearly every time he played, which wasn't very often, he won the man of the match award. Had the misfortune of having to deal with stone age managers)
    Steven Reid (the few times he played he was brilliant. Probably the best Irish midfielder who made debut for Ireland this century. Ravaged by injury)

    Richie Sadlier (the Irish Alan Shearer. Retired age 24 with one cap)

    Bench:
    Stephen Carr (the Irish Cafu. Tearing up the wing and hammering the ball in the net. Brilliant defensively. Barcelona were going to make a move but he suffered a horrible knee injury. Managed to resurrect his career as a solid utility full back, but he was never the same again)
    Andy Reid (all the skills, vision and positioning in the world, but never really put the work in)
    Andy O'Brien (frail looking centre back with good positioning. Always got the job done. But because he rarely got himself into a bad position, he never had to make big time tackles, which never impressed bullshit managers. Most of his caps came under Kerr)
    Stephen Kelly (Stephen Carr lite)
    Mark Kennedy (brilliant player but I have no idea what happened)
    Darron Gibson. (Spent years as understudy at Man Utd before making move to Everton where he nailed down a starting place and started every week. Got his chance to start against Germany in a nothing match after Trap was finally sacked. Suffered horrific knee injury after half hour and his career was done)

    Moral of the story:
    Don't be called Steve.
    Last edited by anton pulisov; 30-03-2019, 15:32.

    #2
    Andy Goram - for years, couldn't shift Jim Leighton from the side

    Jim Craig - has as many European Cup winners' medals as Scotland caps (1)
    Alan McLaren - best Scottish defender of his generation, knackered his knee at the age of 25 and never properly recovered
    Craig Levein - had the misfortune of being around at the same time as Willie Miller, Alex McLeish and Richard Gough
    Arthur Albiston - the same number of seasons at Man Utd as Scotland caps (14).

    Phil O'Donnell - christ, where to start? Twice the young SPFA player of the year, then injuries, bad career moves, more injuries, before dying of a defective heart valve at the shockingly young age of 35
    Paul Lambert - almost completely ignored (2 caps) before he went to Dortmund aged 27 and Craig Brown belatedly realised that Lambert was Scotland's best midfielder.
    Peter Weir - outrageously talented, maddeningly inconsistent, around at the same time as Davie Cooper (who himself qualifies as an "honourable mention" for this list)

    Eric Black - used to rip Europe's top club defences to bits when playing for Aberdeen as a teenager, but was around when Scotland managers didn't pick teenagers. Bitten by the injury bug from his mid-20s onwards
    Kris Boyd - phenomenal natural finisher, but a lazy bastard and way too fond of speaking his mind to managers
    Bobby Lennox - another European Cup winner. 11 Scottish Leagues, 8 Scottish Cups, 270 career goals, 10 caps. No, me neither.

    Comment


      #3
      I'm not that knowledgeable about US soccer history, so I'm going to have a go and expect plenty of revisions from other posters. A big focus is going to be guys who didn't get to shine on the biggest stage, since the World Cup is still pretty close to the only way a US player can break into the public consciousness and become undroppable.

      GK: Jeurgen Sommer, actually the first American goalkeeper in the Premier League but knee injuries and Meola/Keller/Friedel limited him to 10 caps. Marcus Hahnemann deserves a mention here too.

      FB: Jonathan Spector actually played first team football for Man United, but the injury bug bit him hard. A shame as we never could develop good fullbacks. He's actually stuck around and just signed for Hibs, but he coulda been a contendah. I can't think of another fullback.

      CB: Eddie Pope...kind of a cheat, because he'd probably make an all-time American XI anyway, but his knees just killed his career. 82 caps and three World Cups doesn't sound like a wasted career, but he was still really good when he retired at 33. Michael Parkhurst got a fair bit of hype, even getting attention from the FAI, but never panned out.

      MF: John O'Brien, probably as good technically as any American player ever and held down a starting spot on a really good Ajax team. But couldn't stay healthy. Ricky Davis was the best US player of the 80s but blew out his knee right before the 1990 World Cup, same with Hugo Perez (although he did get to play once in 1994).

      FW: Clint Mathis, ten cent head. Jovan Kirovski probably would have made the Man United first team in the mid-90s if not for work permit hell (a common bugbear for US players). 62 caps doesn't sound like a wasted career, but my memory is a lot of those were off the bench in friendlies, and he never played in a World Cup. Charlie Davies was playing really well at Sochaux until he got into a car driven by a drunk woman.

      Comment


        #4
        John O'Brien was bloody amazing. He was fit on and off between 2002 and 2003 and was instrumental in getting the USA to the World Cup QF and Ajax to the Champions League QF. I think that was the only 12 month period where he wasn't constantly injured.

        I'll have to edit in some descriptions for the Irish players.

        Comment


          #5
          I'd nominate Gary Shaw for the England striker's shirt - league champion and young player of the year at 20, European Cup winner and European young player of the year 12 months later.
          At the same time, Gary Lineker, who is a couple of months older, was a bit part player as Leicester were relegated, and his goals failed to get them up the year after.

          But for the injury in 1983 that effectively finished his career, we might have had a different Gary winning the golden boots, bagging the crisp sponsorships and bickering on Twitter.

          Comment


            #6
            The England goalkeeper could have beens from 1970-1990 are numerous thanks to Shilton and Clemence's domination and longevity.

            Parkes, Corrigan, Rimmer, Cooper, Lukic, Ogrizovic spring immediately to mind.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by jwdd27 View Post
              The England goalkeeper could have beens from 1970-1990 are numerous thanks to Shilton and Clemence's domination and longevity.

              Parkes, Corrigan, Rimmer, Cooper, Lukic, Ogrizovic spring immediately to mind.
              And Stepney, 1 cap in a friendly is ridiculous.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jwdd27 View Post
                I'd nominate Gary Shaw for the England striker's shirt - league champion and young player of the year at 20, European Cup winner and European young player of the year 12 months later.
                At the same time, Gary Lineker, who is a couple of months older, was a bit part player as Leicester were relegated, and his goals failed to get them up the year after.

                But for the injury in 1983 that effectively finished his career, we might have had a different Gary winning the golden boots, bagging the crisp sponsorships and bickering on Twitter.
                Having spent a day in the same group as him once, it's fair to say he realises this and clearly despises Lineker.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Steve Perryman should figure here somewhere, proving anton's theory further. (Perryman's cap was actually a 'b' international, which is even crazier.)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jwdd27 View Post
                    The England goalkeeper could have beens from 1970-1990 are numerous thanks to Shilton and Clemence's domination and longevity.

                    Parkes, Corrigan, Rimmer, Cooper, Lukic, Ogrizovic spring immediately to mind.
                    There seemed to be a constant stream of excellent keepers back then, could additionally make cases for Nigel Spink, Tony Coton and possibly even Kev Pressman.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      1 Jim Platt (23 caps, standing for election in May, Middlesbrough readers)
                      2 Liam Donnelly (1 back in 2014, u-21 ever-present since)
                      3 Colin Coates (6, played only in IPL)
                      4 Glenn Dunlop (0, shunned move to Scotland or England, doing God's work)
                      5 John O'Neill (39, thanks El Guapo)
                      6 Lawrie Sanchez (3, ye don't vex with the Mex)
                      7 George Best (37 in 13 years)
                      8 Johnny Jameson (0, preferred working with Melina Mercouri in Never on a Sunday)
                      9 Joe Bambrick (12, too few games in the 30s)
                      10 Norman Whiteside (38, retired injured at 27)
                      11 Ian Stewart (31, Deutschlands Angstspieler)

                      12 Will Grigg (13 since 2012 debut, no competitive starts, no ignition)

                      more later, this is harder than it looks
                      Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 31-03-2019, 12:05.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Mark Crossley would be automatic first choice now but had the misfortune of being behind Southall, then Paul Jones.

                        Matty Jones didn't look out of place as a teenager in that very good Leeds team of the late 90s/early 2000s and the evidence of his few caps showed that he would have been a far better option in central midfield than the likes of (shudder)... Savage. Injuries forced him to retire at 23.

                        Chris Coleman should have won a lot more than 32 caps. We did have some decent centre backs in the 90s but he was a cut above.

                        Simon Davies is another one whose career was blighted by injury. 58 caps is not to be sniffed at but it should have been getting on for double that.

                        Adam Matthews is another, more recent example of being made of glass.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by The-Reverend View Post

                          There seemed to be a constant stream of excellent keepers back then, could additionally make cases for Nigel Spink, Tony Coton and possibly even Kev Pressman.
                          Mervyn Day!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Rob Jones got 8 caps for England during the 90s. He was born in Wrexham and would have been a stalwart of Wales' glorious 90s failures if he'd been picked first by Wales.
                            Last edited by Patrick Thistle; 30-03-2019, 16:02.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
                              1 Jim Platt (standing for election in May, Middlesbrough readers)
                              2
                              3 Colin Coates (6 caps while in IPL)
                              4 Glenn Dunlop (shunned move to Scotland or England, doing God's work)
                              5
                              6
                              7 George Best (37 caps in 13 years)
                              8
                              9 Joe Bambrick (too few games in the 30s)
                              10 Norman Whiteside(retired injured at 27)
                              11 Michael Hughes (signed off after maiming Robbie Savage)

                              more later, this is harder than it looks
                              Even though he won 39 caps, John O'Neill could fill the 5 or 6 shirt, only 29 when Fashanu ended his career.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                Rob Jones got 8 caps for England during the 90s. He was born in Wrexham and would have been a stalwart of Wales' glorious 90s failures if he'd been picked first by Wales.
                                And if it weren't for injury, he probably would have delayed Gary Neville's introduction to the England starting XI by at least five years. Not many players could claim to be a could-have-been for two nations.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  George Best. 37 caps. That's not right.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    The Ryan Giggs of his day, club v country wise? Or did the national coach not trust him?

                                    John Sheridan is a good shout.
                                    Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 30-03-2019, 22:42.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Kevin Beattie, 9 caps.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Good call on Kevin Beattie, also Laurie Cunningham only got 6 caps.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Vicarious Thrillseeker View Post
                                          George Best. 37 caps. That's not right.
                                          I think Matt Busby can partly blamed for this?

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            George Best's no-shows are mainly down to himself- a mix of his alcoholism and not taking playing for NI seriously. He was the biggest star in England by 1968 and beyond Busby's influence soon afterwards.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Best does seem to have missed a lot of Home Internationals, when they were still a pretty big deal and not usually in a fixture clash. I only caught the tail-end of his career, so I can't remember his absence being in the headlines, as by then it was no longer news.

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Sean of the Shed View Post
                                                Good call on Kevin Beattie, also Laurie Cunningham only got 6 caps.
                                                England players in contention would include those midfield fancy dans who played pretty passes but didn't like it up 'em, as per the received wisdom among managers of the time. Alan Hudson (2 caps) is the patron saint of this group.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  Le Tissier.

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