Euro 2020 Qualifiers and associated friendlies

[Ray de Galles]

Just got in.

Weird, joyful night and a game that was almost frictionless in the lack of problems Hungary gave us yet was still tense until at least the 90th minute mark because...well, because we're Wales and we've spent my lifetime fucking these things up (even for 2016 we qualified while losing).

We never really seemed to get going in this group, I think tonight is possibly the first time we've been in the top two - we certainly haven't been so since the opening game. The two defeats from the brutal away double header in Croatia and Hungary (that could easily have yielded up to four points such were the fine margins involved) seemed to put us out of things and I thought we'd have to win every game from then on in.

Turns out we just had to make sure we didn't lose any and winning the two games in this last double-header, really quite comfortably, got us over the line.

I'm still not sure about Giggs, every team he picks has at least one selection that dumbfounds me, but he's got us through somehow and I'm intrigued to see how he approaches a tournament finals. That's assuming he stays, he still seems quite fragile, almost lonely, in the job.

I am sure about Aaron Ramsey and that he is the greatest footballer, nay the greatest man, on the planet and probably of all time. I feel privileged and grateful to come from the same little country as him and for our lifetimes to overlap.

Tonight we partied like it was 2016. We're getting the band back together for another European tour (well, Baku & Rome or Copenhagen & St Petersburg- which are apparently the only two groups we can be in) and if it's a fraction of the fun last time was (and thank gawd it hasn't proven to be the only time) then we're going to have a blast.

[G-Man]

So, imp, was it a bad evening out?

Germany were pretty impressive. Some beautiful passing moves. The future looks a little bit brighter than it did 12 months ago. But the defence remains a concern, if Süle and Rüdiger aren't going to be fit for the Euros. I'd like Löw to eat a but of humble pie and recall Hummels, who is having a superb season with Dortmund.

[3 Colours Red]

How the fuck is Joe Allen still at Stoke if he can play like he did last night?

And Kieffer Moore is the least archetypal 6' 5" target man I've ever seen. Spraying cross-field passes, far more comfortable when the ball is played to his feet than to his head and most untypical of all, almost sickeningly handsome.

[Ray de Galles]

How the fuck is Joe Allen still at Stoke if he can play like he did last night?

Wales, Chickens, Stoke.

In that order.

[imp]

So, imp, was it a bad evening out?

Germany were pretty impressive. Some beautiful passing moves. The future looks a little bit brighter than it did 12 months ago. But the defence remains a concern, if Süle and Rüdiger aren't going to be fit for the Euros. I'd like Löw to eat a but of humble pie and recall Hummels, who is having a superb season with Dortmund.

I suddenly starting giving a marginal shit about the game as soon as the NI fans sang 'God Save the Fucking Queen' with more gusto than is good for any country. Still, they made a lot of noise and kept on singing through all the German goals. I think they were all too drunk to notice, which is probably a good policy for getting through a game like this when you get carved apart despite playing nine at the back.

The first seven minutes were hilarious. Germany playing tici-taca for six minutes, then NI finally getting the ball, breaking fast and with one direct move going 1-0 up with a thumping goal from Smith. The game was actually quite exciting and evenly matched until Gnabry equalised in the 19th. After that, it was Gods against plods.

Despite two pairs of socks and a thick pair of winter boots, I lost my toes for a few hours. My fingers followed them on the bike road back. If the family had tried to talk me out of it, I'd have stayed home, but they seemed quite up for it in the end.

If I was Löw I'd recall Hummels and then just leave him on the bench, for every game.

(Congrats to Wales, btw, and Lincoln City's Joe Morrell, of course.)

[Duncan Gardner]

Morning all and congratulations to Cymru.. Did you detour to Grosse Rittergasse Herr Teufel? My brother and step-nephew confirm that almost everyone was too pissed to worry about anything as incidental as a thrashing, though Wee Jimmy slept through most of it as usual

[imp]

Wasn't on my route home at 11pm, frozen cojones stuck to my bike seat and more than ready for my bed. Every NI fan we saw looked like that's where they'd been for the best part of the day, though.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Someone gets the short straw in Group A of having to go to Baku, Rome then back to Baku. At least for the others it's either Baku, Baku Rome or Rome, Baku Baku.

[Jah Womble]

Brave:

He's milking this a bit too much IMO.

Congrats, Wales, of course.

[Ray de Galles]

He really isn't, the Wales fans certainly are - hence the chant and the guy getting the flag made. All Bale did was be photographed with that flag after Hennessey asked the fan to throw it to the squad.

[Bored Of Education]

I am sure about Aaron Ramsey and that he is the greatest footballer, nay the greatest man, on the planet and probably of all time. I feel privileged and grateful to come from the same little country as him and for our lifetimes to overlap.

Not only that but we got to see him at his first club. I think the wife just threw out the programme of at least on of the games. I know that I am, by far, not the only one to say that the 2016 semi-final (and since) have shown how he is the most important player for us but still Bale-mania goes on.

[Felicity, I guess so]

So, how the fuck are Israel still involved if they finished 4th?

[Jah Womble]

You might regret asking that.

[ad hoc]

So, how the fuck are Israel still involved if they finished 4th?

How the fuck are Israel involved since they deny the right of another FIFA member to practise and play games?

[seand]

So, how the fuck are Israel still involved if they finished 4th?

Qualification for the playoffs was based on performance in the Nations League NOT the Euro qualifiers

[Duncan Gardner]

How the fuck are Israel involved since they deny the right of another FIFA member to practise and play games?

Israel continue to play in UEFA competitions in large part because other UEFA members tolerate them. When they played a friendly in Belfast last year, there were both pro- and anti- demos on either side of the Broadway roundabout (motorway exit near Windsor Park). But no-one suggested the South would refuse to play them in an U-21 qualifier soon afterwards

[Satchmo Distel]

Teams that refused to play Israel would get kicked out of competitions. There has to be a consensus to expel them. Putting them in UEFA rather than other confederations is damage limitation in that it's much harder for them to qualify for World Cups by that route, compared to when they qualified for Mexico 70 (only three years after the 1967 war, notably).

The consensus also has to be across sports, as with expelling apartheid South Africa, yet Israel is very prominent in basketball, for example.

[Duncan Gardner]

Teams that refused to play Israel would get kicked out of competitions. There has to be a consensus to expel them...the consensus also has to be across sports, as with expelling apartheid South Africa, yet Israel is very prominent in basketball, for example.

Aye, that was my point. The Belfast demos I mentioned were basically SF/ DUP stunts, not really about Palestine/ Israel. For that consensus to build, UEFA members would have to start by voting to disadvantage themselves.As would wider politics, even Governments

Putting them in UEFA rather than other confederations is damage limitation in that it's much harder for them to qualify for World Cups by that route, compared to when they qualified for Mexico 70 (only three years after the 1967 war, notably)

Given the convoluted and even absurd nature of the current UEFA qualifying tournament, Belarus (a team even weaker than Israel) could qualify. It lessens the relevance of that damage limitation

[Nesta]

UTI Rhodesia also competed in the Asia/Oceania qualifying bracket for Mexico 70 that Israel won, fact fans.

[ad hoc]

Teams that refused to play Israel would get kicked out of competitions. There has to be a consensus to expel them. Putting them in UEFA rather than other confederations is damage limitation in that it's much harder for them to qualify for World Cups by that route, compared to when they qualified for Mexico 70 (only three years after the 1967 war, notably).

The consensus also has to be across sports, as with expelling apartheid South Africa, yet Israel is very prominent in basketball, for example.

Personally i believe that we should fully boycott Israel including in sports. But as that's not about to happen, there is a very strong case for FIFA to expel them because they routinely stop another FIFA member (Palestine) from practising and playing as well as breaking rules like accepting teams from illegal settlements into their league, and of course shooting and maiming professional players from Palestine. They break FIFA and UEFA rules without any form of sanction, and they ought to be suspended at the very least. i have no idea whether there is any comparable situation in world basketball

[Satchmo Distel]

That's an excellent point that I hadn't considered and yes, is strong grounds for expulsion.

[imp]

No worries - if the Israeli FA has been involved in the transgression of ethical boundaries, you can be sure that FIFA will be right on top of it.

[anton pulisov]

So Ireland will play Slovakia and Bosnia will play Balkan Ireland.

So today there will be a draw to decide... erm... I don't know.

[Duncan Gardner]

So YugoIreland will play Slovakia and Bosnia will play NI

So today there will be a draw to decide... erm... I don't know.

Whether Bosnia or Slovakia will stage the final?

[Ray de Galles]

You going to Bosnia, DG?