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Copas América 2019 and 2020

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  • Sam
    started a topic Copas América 2019 and 2020

    Copas América 2019 and 2020

    Right, may as well do this, since there have been mentions of the 2020 Copa over on the MLS thread (because apparently North Americans feel they have ownership of the Copa these days).

    There are going to be two Copas América in the next sixteen(ish) months. One from the 14th June to the 17th July this year in Brazil, and one slated for the 12th June to the 12th July next year, as CONMEBOL wants to shift the Copa over to even-numbered years (still on a four-yearly basis). The 2020 Copa will be the first to have joint hosts, and those joint hosts will be Argentina and Colombia. Yes, I said Argentina and Colombia. The other hosting offers were from the USSF (because apparently North Amer— ah I already said that, okay) and – and you'll like this – Australia. The thinking for the joint hosts was seemingly that at relatively short notice no one country is ready to put on the whole thing, and: Brazil and Chile have / will have both hosted really recently; Uruguay has possibly the biggest basket case of an FA on the continent (even by South American standards); Paraguay has one stadium, Bolivia has one stadium and is way up in the sky; Peru doesn't have the infrastructure (I'm guessing?) and Ecuador has already been confirmed as the host for 2024, and Venezeual? Bitch, please. So the plan for 2020 is to have two groups of six (why not just two groups of five, and do away with the guest participants?!) with first and second from each group going to the semis. One group is played in Colombia, one is played in Argentina, each country gets one semi, and the final will be in Argentina (which presumably means the third-place playoff in Colombia). Wikipedia suggests the opening match and the final will both be played at the Monumental, but I don't know what their source is for that.

    But this, friends, is 2019, so three months out and ahead of the upcoming round of preparatory friendlies seems like a good time to get a thread rolling in readiness for this winter's tournament. Yes, I said this winter. It's going to be played in the southern hemisphere, so suck it up. Nuestro norte es el sur.

    The 2019 group draw was held in December, and as ever the top seeds were Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil, in spite of the facts that Argentina haven't won it since 1993 and Chile have won the last two editions in a row.

    Group A
    Brazil
    Bolivia
    Venezuela
    Peru

    Group B
    Argentina
    Colombia
    Paraguay
    Qatar

    Group C
    Uruguay
    Ecuador
    Japan
    Chile

    Top two in each group, along with the two best-ranked third-placed teams, go through to the quarterfinals.

    March 2019 friendlies:
    21/3
    USA v Ecuador
    22/3
    Japan v Colombia
    South Korea University(!) v Bolivia
    Uzbekistan v Uruguay
    Argentina v Venezuela (in Madrid)
    Peru v Paraguay
    Mexico v Chile
    23/3
    Brazil v Panama

    26/3
    Japan v Bolivia
    South Korea v Colombia
    Czech Republic v Brazil
    Morocco v Argentina
    Ecuador v Honduras
    USA v Chile
    Peru v El Salvador
    Mexico v Paraguay

    Main team news so far: Lionel Messi is back with Argentina for this month's friendlies, so will be expected at the Copa.
    Last edited by Sam; 15-03-2019, 05:01.

  • danielmak
    replied
    CONCACAF used to have guests as well, but there have been a lot of screwy things that CONCACAF has done (mostly at the urging of the US---including the fact that the Gold Cup is always in the US).

    1993 (Ecuador) was the first year that CONMEBOL expanded the Copa America. I don't know why that happened. Perhaps it was a CONMEBOL effort to make up for lost income when Colombia lost the WC. Or it could have just been gold old CONMEBOL greed. I assume someone here knows the original rationale.

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  • Rogin the Armchair fan
    replied
    Is there nothing in the FIFA system about how "guest" teams accumulate points in tournaments? You're right, it gives them an obvious advantage playing in two different continental champs if not.

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  • Sam
    replied
    For the avoidance of doubt, as I'd missed that line from cantagalo on first reading, I agree with blameless.

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  • blameless
    replied
    Like Sam, for 2020 I think it should be restricted to 10 South American countries without the added guests.

    At the risk of repeating myself - I've made this point a couple of times in years past - every edition should be restricted to just the CONMEBOL teams without any guests.

    African, European and the overwhelming majority of AFC teams don't get to game the FIFA ranking system by appearing in other confederations' tournaments (ranking points for which are worth far more than friendlies), so why should those from Japan, Qatar, Mexico or the US? Or indeed Brazil turning up as guest in the Gold Cup?

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  • danielmak
    replied
    It looks like 2019 will be the first Copa in a long time (ever?) to have the last group games kicking off at the same time. In recent years these games followed the earlier group games and used different start times. I don't remember if this system in the past led to any West Germany-Austria situations, where two teams just played out the game to the detriment of another side or sides in the group.

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  • Sam
    replied
    Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
    Having the two best 3rd placed teams going through while also having Qatar and Japan in there seems to be asking for trouble, e.g. Japan and/or Qatar get through at the expense of say, Peru. Or the two Asian teams get thumped and the 3rd team in the group which didn't have the Asian makeweight misses out.

    OTOH if you can't make the last 8 out of a field of 12, of which two are Qatar and Venezuela, you can't blame the format.

    34 days also seems too long for a 12 team tournament.
    As Rogin says, Qatar and Japan just played the Asian Cup final a few months ago (after they'd been confirmed as the two invitees).

    I suspect the 34-day duration for the 2020 Copa is to allow for the fact that if the semis are (as you'd expect them to be) Group A v Group B and Group B v Group A, that means that one team will have to fly from Colombia to Argentina for their semi (then possibly back to Colombia for the third-place match if they lose the semi), and another will have to fly from Argentina to Colombia for their semi (then possibly back to Argentina for the final if they win it). Distance-wise, this is like having a tournament joint-hosted by England and Iran (great circle distance between Buenos Aires and Bogotá: 4,600km. Distance between London and Tehran: 4,300km). I can understand why they've factored in a bit more time for it than they normally do.

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  • ursus arctos
    replied
    Is Brian Moreno out of jail?

    He could put them over the top.

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  • Rogin the Armchair fan
    replied
    Qatar just won the Asian Cup by beating Japan in the final. Their team seems to have been in the planning ever since they were awarded the World Cup - coach Felix Sanchez has worked with the u-20 then u-23 sides before basically taking those players into senior level now. They've got a couple of Algerians and a Portuguese born player, but the side isn't rammed full of Brazilians who've suddenly discovered Qatari grannies like cynics like me had predicted. They could cause upsets at the Copa and, indeed, at the World Cup by the looks of them, possibly even on a South Korea in 2002 scale.
    Last edited by Rogin the Armchair fan; 16-03-2019, 11:57.

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  • Satchmo Distel
    replied
    Having the two best 3rd placed teams going through while also having Qatar and Japan in there seems to be asking for trouble, e.g. Japan and/or Qatar get through at the expense of say, Peru. Or the two Asian teams get thumped and the 3rd team in the group which didn't have the Asian makeweight misses out.

    OTOH if you can't make the last 8 out of a field of 12, of which two are Qatar and Venezuela, you can't blame the format.

    34 days also seems too long for a 12 team tournament.

    Leave a comment:


  • danielmak
    replied
    CONMEBOL will do what CONMEBOL will do, all based on who is paying the most cash. But it seems to me that Colombia could host this on their own. Didn't they host a recent U20 or U17 WC? The stadia should be ready for a Copa.

    I'm torn about the format. They could go back to some old school approaches that are still used for the CONMEBOL Sub-20 and have two groups with the top teams advancing to a final round, but I know everyone loves a true knockout phase versus another group phase with a title awarded based on total points in the final round.

    Finally, I can't say I was a big fan of the Centenario being played in the US. I would have been cool(er) with a joint CONCACAF-CONMEBOL played in South America. But I also would prefer to see Copa America's external invites start with the Americas (Canada, US, Mexico, Central America). Granted the recurring ridiculous Gold Cup gets in the way of the CONCACAF sides sending top teams.

    BTW, cantagalo, Peru-Bolivia might not be that bad. Bolivia has been weak away from home but Peru has done quite well in recent Copas. I think they're better served getting away from Peru, where I hear the team just gets killed by the press who seem most interested in stirring up rumors and negativity.
    Last edited by danielmak; 17-03-2019, 05:54.

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  • Rogin the Armchair fan
    replied
    Groups of five always mean that every team (and set of fans) are left with one whole week during the group phase without a game, I guess is the problem. Also, a group of five with only the top two progressing virtually guarantees that by the fifth round of games, at least one team will be out, possibly two, and have nothing to play for against teams who do. Or, indeed, one side is already through and rests against an opponent they might otherwise have beaten.

    If it didn't threaten the existence of CONCACAF I'd rather they invited the Hex from that into this and make it 16 teams on that basis.
    Last edited by Rogin the Armchair fan; 15-03-2019, 17:29.

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  • cantagalo
    replied
    Like Sam, for 2020 I think it should be restricted to 10 South American countries without the added guests.

    The only drawback I can see with two groups of five would be that you'd have to go straight to semi-finals as that would be preferable to playing the group stage just to eliminate two teams.

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  • cantagalo
    replied
    I'll be able to get to the two Rio group games - Bolivia v Peru and Paraguay v Qatar. Not the most glamorous fixtures, it has to be said.

    It'll be more of a challenge to get tickets for the quarter-final there and just about impossible for the final.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jah Womble
    replied
    There do seem to be an awful lot of Copas lately.

    Given that he'll not make the next Mundial, I'll not complain about seeing Messi in at least one last tournament. (That is, if we get any TV coverage here in the UK.)

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  • Sporting
    replied
    They should hold it every six months just to give Messi the chance of winning something with Argentina.

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