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100 years of hurt: England 2021

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    100 years of hurt: England 2021

    Qualifying draw for England 2021 today - a tournament that will, of course, mark a century since women's football matches - at the height of their popularity - were banned from taking place at FA member clubs' grounds by the FA. It will also mark 50 years since the ban was lifted.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_W...021_qualifying

    Wales - seeded second for the first time - face up against Norway, Belarus, Northern Ireland (assuming they still exist) and the Faroe Islands.

    Group winners qualify automatically, as will the three best runners up, while the remaining runners up play each other in playoffs.
    Last edited by Bizarre Lw Triangle; 21-02-2019, 12:24.

    #2
    Other interesting thing about this year is that UEFA have abandoned the Preliminary Round.

    Instead of eight groups of five with a preliminary round eliminating six teams as per the last euros; or seven groups of five with a preliminary round eliminating eleven teams as per the last world cup, they've gone for seven groups of five and two of six.

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      #3
      In related news, I've just impulse bought flights to the Faroe Islands.

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        #4
        Thanks for the thread BLT. I'm going to have to be more disciplined in keeping up with this since England won't be playing qualifiers...

        But I've been very impressed with Scotland over the past couple of years. They're in group E as the top seeds with Finland, Portugal, Albania and Cyprus. Finland now managed by Scotland's previous boss Anna Signeul.

        Group H looking interesting with Switzerland and Belgium both in it.

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          #5
          Originally posted by Bizarre Lw Triangle View Post
          Wales - seeded second for the first time - face up against Norway, Belarus, Northern Ireland (assuming they still exist) and the Faroe Islands.

          Group winners qualify automatically, as will the three best runners up, while the remaining runners up play each other in playoffs
          Away and shite, Englishman

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            #6
            Originally posted by Kevin S View Post
            Thanks for the thread BLT. I'm going to have to be more disciplined in keeping up with this since England won't be playing qualifiers...

            But I've been very impressed with Scotland over the past couple of years. They're in group E as the top seeds with Finland, Portugal, Albania and Cyprus. Finland now managed by Scotland's previous boss Anna Signeul.

            Group H looking interesting with Switzerland and Belgium both in it.
            Yeah, especially given they were separated only by away goals over 180 minutes in the World Cup playoffs. Group B with Italy and Denmark and Group F with Iceland and Sweden are potentially interesting ones too.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post

              Away and shite, Englishman
              there's no need for name-calling.

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                #8
                I tend to respond to snides in kind. NI and it's football teams have their problems, but there's less chance of us cutting this tournament than a giant tidal wave hitting Newport and causing $10m of ... Improvements

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                  #9
                  You'd have probably said something similar about the prospect of East Germany not completing their Euro '92 qualifying fixtures when the draw was made in February 1990.

                  I don't think it's snide to acknowledge the uncertainty about the political future of Northern Ireland.

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                    #10
                    I wouldn't actually. The parallel is pretty limited anyway

                    NI is a bit volatile and with uncertain future? Thanks for the searing insight.

                    If you'd said Euro 2029 we could argue the case But as it is .your point if not snide is just ill-informed.

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                      #11
                      Unlike the men, there has never been a women's national team for the whole of Ireland (the two current sides only started playing internationals in 1973) so it would be harder to say to the women that they have to return to an older set-up, even if you believed that football in Ireland as it existed before 1950 could ever be recreated (or that football culture could be magically transformed into rugby culture).

                      That's assuming that a united Ireland would ever be acceptable to Conservatives and Unionists, which I strongly doubt.

                      On the tournament itself, it would be great if Scotland, Wales, NI and ROI all qualified (to join England who are already qualified as hosts) but the draw makes that unlikely as two are in the same group, two are only the third or fourth seeds in their group and six of the runners-up have to play off.
                      Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 23-02-2019, 11:30.

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                        #12
                        There's a tendancy, imo, to underestimate the speed in which things shift. The re-unification of Germany was an example I picked because in the spring of 1990 lots of people inside Germany and out - including Britain and France - were opposed to it, while others favoured a slow, gradual transition to unification. And yet it unified that autumn.

                        If Ireland is to unify, it's more likely to happen quickly as a result of an acute crisis - for example, a no deal brexit leading to acute economic crisis both sides of the border - than as a slow, gradual process. Cos once there's a new status quo people will probably get used to it.

                        Obviously, the economic crisis of the DDR was caused by sudden economic integration between two very different economies whereas brexit is going to lead to the segregation of two interdependent economies. The CBI pretty much says "we don't know" about the potential impact of a hard border on Northern Ireland (ignoring the border entirely, they estimate a 9% contraction in the NI's economy). I guess, if i'm "ill-informed" here, fair enough, but what do I need to do to get better informed?

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                          On the tournament itself, it would be great if Scotland, Wales, NI and ROI all qualified (to join England who are already qualified as hosts) but the draw makes that unlikely as two are in the same group, two are only the third or fourth seeds in their group and six of the runners-up have to play off.
                          My predictions would be:
                          Scotland - group winners at a canter
                          Wales - runners up, playoffs
                          ROI - runners up, playoffs
                          NI - third in their group

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                            #14
                            Satch: people who argue for all-Ireland football teams (ie, abolition of NI teams in practice) fall into three broad groups: daydreaming Shinners, bored shit-stirrers and simpletons who think merging two mediocrities would produce excellence as a matter of course. There's also a significant group of people who while not particularly intererested in the game will agree with the suggestion 'if everyone agrees'. Which of course fans of the two sides never have, so the hope is either naivety through ignorance, or just plain dishonesty. People don't like admitting to their bias.

                            NI won't qualify. We lack strength in depth and resources- as a result most of the players are either students (some very young, in the recent past one or two hadn't done their GCSEs) or employees (mainly coaching younger kids).

                            BLT: the Germany parallel is limited not least because it had nothing like 50% consistently voting to stay in the DDR when offered a realistic choice.

                            A united Ireland in the way usually imagined means the South taking on an extra 40% population (many very hostile) while itself potentially facing an economic crisis (if there's a no-deal Brexit). Which doesn't tend to the establishment of a stable status quo.

                            I don't argue with you on the economics, but they aren't the only or I think main factor determining the future of the border. I suggest you look at election results in the recent past, then wait for the next set in May this year. In 2017, NI voters gave 41% to Nationalist parties. That figure would have to rise significantly (I think to about 52-53%) for there to be any real likelihood a border poll or other trigger to a UI. The likelihood of this happening even with no-deal is pretty low.

                            NI went through 30 years of the Troubles, with 3,500 violent deaths. A chronic and acute crisis combined, if you like- yet up to 2016 there was little more likelihood of a UI than in 1976 or 1926. Most parties and commentators in NI (including prominent figures in the DUP) accept change is now much more likely, but basically none of them think it'll come in the way you expect/ want in time for the next international football cycle, or the one after that
                            Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 23-02-2019, 12:43.

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                              #15
                              On the actual games, I'm fairly sure NI will finish third at best, but we've taken some thrashings recently so fourth or fifth quite feasible. Pretty similar to the men in 2020 qualifying

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                                #16
                                Belarus, Northern Ireland and the Faroes got six points between them in the 2019 World Cup qualifying campaign (Northern Ireland were the only side of the three to beat their seeding) - so it's a decent opportunity for them to get a third place finish.

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                                  #17
                                  When the economic reality bites post-Brexit, a UI will be inevitable, on and off the field of play.

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