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    He's big, he's ...

    From another age etc etc
    John Motson has apologised to the Millwall striker Tom Elliott after describing him as ‘big, black and brave’ on TalkSport

    #2
    Surprised he didn't mistake him for one of the other players.

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      #3
      Clive James once chided him (January 21, 1979):

      This was a nice contrast with Match of the Day (BBC1), where an hysterical voice-over was to be heard commending "the two coloured players* for ‘combining beautifully.' The difference between commentating and Colemantating is that a commentator says things you would like to remember and a Colemantator says things you would like to forget.
      Other examples:

      https://www.onetouchfootball.com/for...ll-tv-coverage
      Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 19-02-2019, 10:44.

      Comment


        #4
        With Motson and the commentators of his generation, I'm far less annoyed by his blurts now ("old man says thoughtless thing, who knew?") than by the whitewashing of their past silence. They did their job week after week and heard the chants and abuse most of those weeks - some grounds worse than others, but clearly audible at many, and in our homes via MOTD and the ITV versions. As mentioned on the linked thread (and when Regis died) Gerald Sinstadt spoke up at the Man Utd-WBA game, but that was a rare exception.

        So we have this unhealthy combination of being totes anti-racist today, and nostalgic about those good old days when it was so much worse. Retirement tributes to Motty should have included a compilation DVD of 'Monkey Chants He Missed'. And a simple question: "Why, John?". I mean, we all knew. What stopped him?

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          #5
          Absolutely- I can remember being furious with radio coverage when clearly identifiable racist chanting got the comment “Great atmosphere in the ground today”

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            #6
            Dave Hill has a chapter on how the BBC covered a Liverpool-Everton Cup tie in which John Barnes appeared (1988). Cliches about lovable scousers in the prologue then silence while Barnes was getting abused.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Felicity, I guess so View Post
              Absolutely- I can remember being furious with radio coverage when clearly identifiable racist chanting got the comment "Great atmosphere in the ground today"
              I remember the BBC doing this on telly coverage of an Old Firm game about a decade ago as they were in the studio being drowned out by a song about killing the opposition. To be fair, at least Alan Hansen had the good grace to be slightly embarrassed about it.

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                #8
                Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                Dave Hill has a chapter on how the BBC covered a Liverpool-Everton Cup tie in which John Barnes appeared (1988). Cliches about lovable scousers in the prologue then silence while Barnes was getting abused.
                It's unsettling to me how Barnes himself appears sometimes to excuse this sort of behaviour.

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                  #9
                  Is it just me but does the incredibly dehumanising "He's a big unit" only ever refer to black players?

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                    #10
                    And farm animals

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Bordeaux Education View Post
                      Is it just me but does the incredibly dehumanising "He's a big unit" only ever refer to black players?
                      I've used that for white players. Goytre AFC had a massive centre forward who fit the bill.

                      But yeah generally, it's a bit terrible.

                      On the commentators not mentioning the racism, that's how polite people showed they weren't racist back then. They just made sure they pointedly ignored it. (As if commenting on it was somehow going to make it worse.)

                      The good old days weren't that good were they. My overall feeling about the 80s is that it was a grim time to be alive.

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                        #12
                        "Boy" is still sometimes used for black players of all ages.

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                          #13
                          "Pace and power". No quick, strong white players seem to be described thus.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                            The good old days weren't that good were they. My overall feeling about the 80s is that it was a grim time to be alive.
                            I can assure you that, in that respect, the seventies were far worse.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                              And farm animals
                              Is that the derivation? If so, that makes it worse.

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                                #16
                                Originally posted by Bordeaux Education View Post
                                Is it just me but does the incredibly dehumanising "He's a big unit" only ever refer to black players?
                                i've heard it used to describe both Richard Dunne and Shane Duffy. I think it's one of those things that is taken at face value over here, but you don't hear it very often.

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                                  #17
                                  Saw it on Facebook about Cherif Traoré in today's rugby but, similar to you, heard it said about Bath City's Ryan Brunt who is white so , perhaps, it has evolved from "only ever" being referred to black players - even if, I suspect, it is mostly said about them.

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                                    #18
                                    The only athlete over here I remember being consistently referred to as a Big Unit was Randy Johnson, and he's definitely not black.

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                                      #19
                                      Though all of the guys with nicknames referencing household white goods were.

                                      It's just a cross-ocean difference in usage.

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                                        #20
                                        Denis Stracqualursi once got referred to as a unit on Hand Of Pod, but that was by an Australian who at the time was living in Argentina, so the cross-ocean difference is true a number of times over.

                                        It hadn't occurred to me until this thread that the phrase had a racial slant to it, though.

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                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by Bordeaux Education View Post
                                          Is it just me but does the incredibly dehumanising "He's a big unit" only ever refer to black players?
                                          Jon Parkin

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                                            #22
                                            Well, I could be wrong, of course, there's always that possibility. Nudged by you and, especially, AdC's contributions, I checked into the etymology of the phrase and it appears that not only did it originate with Randy Johnson but he was also monikered it by Tim Raines who is black. Now, this could actually add to my theory as it could be a phrase that was used within the black community to each other and Johnson was just the first famous white guy to get called it and therefor raised its profile as a phrase.

                                            However, this, plus other occurrences of it about white players does suggest that my 'only ever' is probably wrong. I still have a nagging feeling that it is mainly used about black players but, at least, I can calm a little on hearing it.


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                                              #23
                                              Why is that post in 8-size Arial font? Barely readable.

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                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by Sam View Post

                                                It hadn't occurred to me until this thread that the phrase had a racial slant to it, though.
                                                That's because it absolutely doesn't.

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                                                  #25
                                                  That's what I meant, Ray.

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