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2019 Copa Libertadores

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    #26
    The Copa Colombia has a chequered history. It has disappeared entirely for years at a time on several occasions and changed format frequently. The groups used around that time were supposed to be geographical, and because it was limited to the country's fully professional clubs, it makes some sense that the groups' composition didn't change.

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      #27
      Originally posted by Sam View Post
      If this is a catch-all South America thread now, then forgive the possible spamming but Fanatiz have just started sponsoring the podcast. They stream the Argentine league and cup – legally, live and in HD, with games also available on demand should you miss them live – plus a couple of other competitions, to the world outside Latin America. They did have the Libertadores and Sudamericana in North America last year, but I think the beIN deal this year has thrown that up in the air a bit, and when I last asked them they were still in talks to renew those deals. Anyway, podcast listeners can get a 20% discount on their first three months with the code 'hopfz' (without the quote marks). Here's a link to their site (full disclosure: that's a referral link which will tell them I sent you on behalf of Hand Of Pod).

      I'm avoiding spoilers since I haven't finished Racing-Corinthians yet, but I meant to reply to this last night and will do so now. I had subbed to Fanatiz for about a year+ because of Libertadores/Sudamericana. Fox had the rights in the US but were constantly putting games on delay because (understandably give the demographics in the US) Copa MX, NFL Thursday night games, and MLB playoffs led to a lot of games being pushed to delay. And Fox always edits delayed games so they can show more commercials during the two-hour broadcast bloc. Anyway, I dumped Fanatiz when BeIN purchased the rights. But today I received an email that Fanatiz has added GolTV and BeIN in the US. GolTV is the best bet for South American football in general (tons of Ecudoran games, usually the big two from Uruguay, and hopefully a renewed deal with Brasil for the league). Fanatiz has on demand and live streams for Argentina and Chile (leagues and cups). So, that's pretty good for $9.99USD per month. They also added RCN USA (known as NTEL) but that is SD broadcast only that looks like garbage. Why they didn't do a deal directly with RCN Colombia for RCN and WIN content is beyond me. The big question will be if they have on demand games for LIberadores/Sudamericana and GolTV content or if it's only live streaming. They don't have any kind of cloud DVR so on demand is really valuable.

      Maybe some of that info. will help you, Sam, if you have a lot of listeners in the US. People in other areas will have access to other programming via Fanatiz: Peru and Mexico but will not have access to some content we get in the US: GolTV and BeIN.

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        #28
        I'm all caught up through Wednesday and will start watching today's games soon.

        Atletico Mineiro hold Defensor at home 0-0 and they are through. Not much action in this one. But MG had it won in the first leg so they did what they needed to do. The other game was much more interesting. Talleres took an early lead but then Palestino came back to score two and advance.

        In the Sudamericana, Corinthians won on penalties. The game as a whole was evenly matched. The Venezuelan side Monagas scored very late to push that match to penalties as well but the extremely small side, Royal Pari won.

        @Cantagalo: There seem toe be a fair amount of mid-week games in Colombia so even if the Libertadores or Sudamericana options are slim, you might have an option for a league match. Also, after America's long run in the second division, the top flight is now stacked with the big clubs. They might not be doing well in continental competitions but at least the chances increase when looking for a domestic match. And the next Sudamericana round has some Colombian sides, but most are outside Medellin and Bogota: La Equidad, Dep Cli, and Rionegro Aguilas.
        Last edited by danielmak; 01-03-2019, 03:20.

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          #29
          That's precisely the point, danielmak, they haven't teamed up with us due to our huge following in the Spanish-speaking world, after all. If they were able to get EU/UK rights to show the Libertadores that would also help us sell them of course, but the US is a massive part of our listenership so I was happy to see their tweet about the new deal earlier.

          Do feel free to use that affiliate link (here it is again) and the hopfz discount code if you're thinking of renewing your subscription after today's wonderful news.

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            #30
            Originally posted by danielmak View Post
            @Cantagalo: There seem toe be a fair amount of mid-week games in Colombia so even if the Libertadores or Sudamericana options are slim, you might have an option for a league match. Also, after America's long run in the second division, the top flight is now stacked with the big clubs. They might not be doing well in continental competitions but at least the chances increase when looking for a domestic match. And the next Sudamericana round has some Colombian sides, but most are outside Medellin and Bogota: La Equidad, Dep Cli, and Rionegro Aguilas.
            No Libertadores as Atlético Nacional eliminated by Libertad on penalties. But I'll be fine. There are league matches at the weekend and in midweek. Hoping to catch games involving Atlético, Independiente, Millonários and Santa Fé. Some Série B possibilities as well.
            Last edited by cantagalo; 01-03-2019, 15:27.

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              #31
              I know I tend to be a little higher on Sudamericana than others who tend to participate in these threads, but Atl Nacional finished with the most points among the third round losers and their reward for that is to be one of two sides that enter the next round of the Sudamericana. Depending on dates, that might be an option as well when you are there. I've been too busy to watch much Colombian league action in the last year (I just watched the final from December about 2 weeks ago) but Envigado is a suburb of Medellin. The club has a good reputation for producing young players, most notably James. They might be worth a visit if you're looking to get in as many games as possible.

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                #32
                You're right - I didn't know about that escape route into the Sudamericana for Atlético!

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                  #33
                  A mixed bag during the first week. A lot of 0-0 matches and not many of those were exciting 0-0. Additionally, a lot of the 1-0/0-1 weren't much better, including Zamora-Nacinoal (even if I'll take the result).

                  The two thrillers were Libertad-Univ Catolica and Univ Concepcion-Sporting Cristal (the latter a 5-4 win for Concepcion in the last minute after a crazy second half). I learned on another board that Libertad's Colombian coach Leonal Alvarez was sacked for reportedly sleeping with the wife of one of his players. It's unclear what happened in that some reports had him sleeping with multiple wives of players and the wife of a board member. Other reports suggest that he turned up to practice the day after this win and was locked out. Either way, he's out and that will likely derail a side that has been very exciting so far.

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                    #34
                    I have to agree; a less than sparkling start. Ten of the sixteen matches ended up either 0-0 or 1-0. The only real entertainment I had was watching the mad highlights of Universidad Concepcion and Sporting Cristal.

                    I chose to watch San Jose and Flamengo which was won by Gabriel (I still refuse to call him Gabigol despite him being top goalscorer in Serie A last year) but I couldn't work out whether it was the altitude or neither team being very good that was responsible for a dire game. Then half an hour of Atlético Mineiro struggling against Cerro Porteno and I decided sleep was the best option.

                    Even the Argentinian giants couldn't lift the mood with away draws for Boca and, by the skin of their teeth, River.

                    Other than your intriguing story about Libertad, not much else of great interest other than Deportivo Lara having to postpone their match against Emelec until Friday afternoon due to power cuts in Venezuela. It doesn't sound like it was worth the wait - it ended 0-0.

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                      #35
                      I'm with you about that Gabigol thing. I didn't see a lot of him last year (mostly the early games after his return) and he looked poor. I get that he was re-adjusting and it's interesting to hear that he was top goal scorer, but then again Fred was top scorer if I remember correctly two years ago. That's not to diminish the honor, necessarily, but just to qualify things a bit. Anyway, he's no Batigol in my book.

                      I think Flamngo-Liga should be an interesting match. We'll see what the 2019 Liga looks like away from home.

                      Gremio-Libertad should also be very interesting. Alvarez is indeed out. I'm not sure who is coaching them now since Alvarez's assistants were also reportedly locked out of training. And the plot thickens with reports that one of the players was sleeping with Alvarez's girlfriend. Perhaps Libertad is just a polyamorous club. But I assume these distractions will do them in, which is a real shame since Libertad have been responsible for two very exciting games in this year's Libertadores.

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                        #36
                        A shame jason's not around at the moment to give us the word from the street in Asunción.

                        Melgar v San Lorenzo has to win the prize for most boring of a rather dull opening week of group games. It might have been the dullest match I've ever seen (although, mercifully, I wasn't giving it my full attention).

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                          #37
                          Originally posted by danielmak View Post
                          I'm with you about that Gabigol thing. I didn't see a lot of him last year (mostly the early games after his return) and he looked poor. I get that he was re-adjusting and it's interesting to hear that he was top goal scorer, but then again Fred was top scorer if I remember correctly two years ago. That's not to diminish the honor, necessarily, but just to qualify things a bit. Anyway, he's no Batigol in my book.
                          To be fair, he did improve as the season went on but the competition wasn't exactly fierce. He scored 18 league goals. In second place with 13 was the 38 year-old Ricardo Oliveira.

                          I remember people asking me when he moved to Europe at the same time as Gabriel Jesus which of the two was the better prospect. I have not been proven wrong in my opinion.

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                            #38
                            Nacional with another 1-0 win that looked a lot like the win at Zamora, but against what should have been a better side in Atletico-MG.

                            Palmeiras, Boca, and Flamengo were excellent this week and Internacional was about there as well (with ex-Nacional player Nico Lopez scoring two).

                            For me the two big surprises were Gremio (0) - Libertad (1) and River-Palestino (0-0). The latter wasn't really a fair result but such is football. The former was the LIbertad of the past: solid defense, keep the opponent outside the box and forcing shots from deep, and score on a counter attack. We'll see if that becomes the pattern going forward or only for the road games with home games more run and gun.

                            Definitely a more exciting second week but with this many games there's always going to be some less than stellar viewing. I will add that Catolica-Central was quite exciting for a neutral, which means Catolica have been involved in two good matches so far (one win and one loss).

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                              #39
                              Yes this round of matches was quite a bit better. After disastrous home defeats for Gręmio and Atlético, Brazilian results improved. Flamengo's win against LDU was comfortable, as was Internacional's against Alianza Lima.

                              Palmeiras disposed of Melgar with goals from Felipe Melo, Ricardo Goulart and Deyverson. When asked about whether he should have been sent off for a scything scissor tackle on a Melgar player, Melo pleaded his innocence, insisting that he'd made the tackle not with his legs but with his genitals. You may remember Deyverson from last season as he was notorious for his serial sending-offs and being an utter twat. It's no different this year as this was his first game back after a 6 week suspension for spitting in the face of a Corinthians player. As for Ricardo Goulart, I have nothing against him. Palmeiras signed the ex-Cruzeiro man from China and he's an excellent player who will be a real asset for them this season.

                              There could be a real problem with the Venezuelan teams Deportivo Lara and Melgar. Lara were unable to get a flight in time for their match at Cruzeiro and it has been postponed until March 27th. Cruzeiro have asked Conmebol to investigate safety issues for the away game there in Round 5.

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                                #40
                                The Zamora-Nacional game seemed to run smoothly but Lara has now had two major problems with the power outage and now this travel issue. I didn't know why this week's game was delay, but as is always the case with me (esp. with 6 games per day), I was behind and avoiding spoilers.

                                Not a lot to add from Thursday but Athletico (renamed) PR continued the Brazilian dominance with a big win. Penarol also with the same scoreline (4-0), making it a bad day for Bolivian sides. And Emelec-Huracan played to a dreadful 0-0. Lara will save one of these two, but neither have shown that they deserve saving so far.

                                Sudamericana next week. Flu will be the biggest side involved in a match, but there aren't any ties featuring two historically big sides. For me, Montevideo Wanderers v. Sport Huancayo is probably the most interesting so that's saying something about the quality on paper. But hopefully the play will be much better than what's on paper.
                                Last edited by danielmak; 16-03-2019, 05:41.

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                                  #41
                                  I somehow missed out Athletico's (sic) win. Their 'rebranding' is a subject I might return to.

                                  For now, I just can't get used to the new shirts and miss the red and black stripes.

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                                    #42
                                    I received the latest issue of the Blizzard this week. There's an excellent piece by Jonathan Wilson about the 2018 Libertadores final. Check it out if you have the time and are so inclined: https://www.theblizzard.co.uk/article/world-and-game

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                                      #43
                                      The tournament is starting to get into its stride now with three Brazil/Argentina match-ups in Round 3.

                                      Pride of place goes to Athletico-PR with a 3-0 thrashing of Boca even if it was an Argentinian, Marco Ruben, who scored the hat-trick. Athletico could be a good bet this year. They were very impressive in the second half of 2018, rising rapidly up Série A and winning the Sudamericana. Their artificial pitch also seems to be a big advantage.

                                      River looked like they were going to be despatched in a similar fashion as Inter took a 2 goal lead but a penalty just before half-time and a superb free kick by substitute De La Cruz got them a draw. With San Lorenzo beating a disappointing Palmeiras, it ended up as honours even.

                                      Flamengo suffered yet another defeat at a packed Maracană with Peńarol scoring a late but not undeserved winner. And guess what - Gabriel sent off. Quite a bit of crowd trouble before and after the match as well. Atlético-MG looked like they were facing almost certain elimination but fought back from two down to beat Zamora and Cruzeiro maintained their 100% record with a win at Emelec,

                                      A few curiosities worth noting as the 3-3 draw between San José and LDU had three own goals, two of them from San José's unfortunate Mena. And congratulations to Deportivo Lara who overcame an empty stadium, another power cut and the Venezuelan authorities scheduling a league game for the same day, to beat Huracan 2-1. It was a particularly eventful game for Deportivo's Manzano who scored at both ends and was sent off.

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                                        #44
                                        I was running way behind this week and only finished watching on Saturday morning. A few more observations to add to Cantagalo's summary. First, I think Atltico-MG's come from behind win (after a dreadful first half going down 0-2 to a side that should be finishing in fourth in the group) will get this team going. And they will be aided by Nacional's inability to generate any kind of offense. Also, I think Gremio might be done and dusted. Libertad continue to be strong at the back and score goals (not a feature of this side until last season--they've always been a lock it down and get through on low-scoring wins). And Catolica have looked much better than the points total.

                                        Cruzeiro has benefited from a weak group but they aren't letting any points get away. But man Dede looks more and more like a thug each week. I expect he'll be red carded soon enough.

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                                          #45
                                          Libertad definitely worth a mention, as are the other Paraguayan teams, Cerro and Olímpia. Collectively, they've won 7 and drawn 2 of their 9 games so far.

                                          I haven't seen much of Cruzeiro this year but I've always liked Dedé back from his time at Vasco. He's back from an awful injury that kept him out for 2 years and was called up to the Brazil squad by Tite last year. Rodriguinho is looking a very good signing from Corinthians but the leading scorer, also back after a long injury, is of course......Fred!

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                                            #46
                                            Originally posted by cantagalo View Post
                                            Libertad definitely worth a mention, as are the other Paraguayan teams, Cerro and Olímpia. Collectively, they've won 7 and drawn 2 of their 9 games so far.

                                            I haven't seen much of Cruzeiro this year but I've always liked Dedé back from his time at Vasco. He's back from an awful injury that kept him out for 2 years and was called up to the Brazil squad by Tite last year. Rodriguinho is looking a very good signing from Corinthians but the leading scorer, also back after a long injury, is of course......Fred!
                                            I posted this on another forum and was looking to avoid repetition here (I guess for myself more than anyone), but I think Fred gets a bad rap. Yeah, he's never had the pure goal scoring reputation that Ronaldo had or that Adriano had (I don't know if Adriano's stats matched the hype -- maybe UA was in Milan when Adriano was there but by the time he arrived at Roma he was crap). And I don't know how often this features in his game, but Fred was incredible in that second matchday against Dep Lara. His passing was incisive, he linked the play wonderfully, and he assisted on both goals. Of course, I wouldn't choose him over Firminho or Jesus for the NT, but I sure as hell would take him at Nacional. I get that he's a striker and what I'm describing here is more of a 10 but if the team has multiple goal scorers and Fred is helping make the goals, I'd be perfectly happy if I were a Cruzeiro fan. I'd only be pissed if he was a lump on a log, getting in the way. Fred is definitely not that.
                                            Last edited by danielmak; 09-04-2019, 00:52.

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                                              #47
                                              MD4 is finished and there have been some questions answered. Three Paraguayan sides are through to the next round. Although personally I have been most impressed by Libertad, Cerro Porteno and Olimpia have been squashing their opponents. This was a week when the big sides showed their ability to use their depth and make a mark. River, Boca, Palmeiras, and Flamengo all had easy wins. And, of course, I'll add that Nacional added another 1-0 win. That's 3 goals scored in 4 games and only 1 conceded. The second part of that sentence feels good to write, but not the first.

                                              BTW, Fred has a first half hat-trick to continue with the discussion in the last two posts.

                                              @cantagalo: we've got no Brasil state league matches on TV in the US this semester and no clear sense of what is happening with the league rights. Not that I have time to watch much from Brasil since LIbertadores takes all week for me. Anyway, I have two questions for you. First, it looks like Borja has been out of the Palmeiras side in the Libertadores. Is he hurt or has Big Phil moved on. Borja was getting good minutes at one point. Second, I can't remember the guy's name but the Flu striker a few years back who finished join top scorer who did that grim reaper goal celebration. I thought he was sold to Flamengo. What happened to him?

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                                                #48
                                                Will be going to Libertad-Gremio and Olimpia-Sporting Cristal in 2 weeks.

                                                Got to see Cerro-Nacional and Libertad v Strongest and Libertad v Nacional Medellin. Hope I can find the time/money to see Palmeiras.

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                                                  #49
                                                  Originally posted by danielmak View Post

                                                  @cantagalo: we've got no Brasil state league matches on TV in the US this semester and no clear sense of what is happening with the league rights. Not that I have time to watch much from Brasil since LIbertadores takes all week for me. Anyway, I have two questions for you. First, it looks like Borja has been out of the Palmeiras side in the Libertadores. Is he hurt or has Big Phil moved on. Borja was getting good minutes at one point. Second, I can't remember the guy's name but the Flu striker a few years back who finished join top scorer who did that grim reaper goal celebration. I thought he was sold to Flamengo. What happened to him?
                                                  Been travelling so no contribution from me this week as I've just seen brief highlights of the games. I've reached Medellín and, as you predicted there's no shortage of games. Saw Independiente last night and I'm just off to see Medellin's third team, Envigado this afternoon. Hope to catch Atlético Nacional on Wednesday.

                                                  I've never been really impressed with Borja at Palmeiras (I thought he was great at Atlético Nacional) and they have such a big squad it's often hard to get a game. He faces competition from Deyverson (and you know my views on him) and new signing from Ceará, Arthur Cabral.

                                                  The player you're thinking of is Henrique Dourado (O Ceifador). He was a big disappointment at Flamengo (I'm not sure they noticed what a high proportion of his goals at Flu were penalties!) and last month was sold to a Chinese club whose name escapes me. Unhappily, in his first game for them he not only scored but broke his leg.

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                                                    #50
                                                    @JV: I expect that Olimpia-Cristal game will be a good one. Olimpia is set for the next round but Cristal is still in the mix. When they played two weeks ago, both sides were undefeated in their respective leagues. Libertad's stadium seems much smaller so ideally a bit more energy (although they might be fielding a b-team).

                                                    @cantagalo: Glad to hear there have been a lot of choices. I have had not time to watch Colombian league games this semester so don't know where the teams stand in terms of the league, but hopefully the games were exciting and the energy in he stadia was good.

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