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2019 Copa Libertadores

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    2019 Copa Libertadores

    Well, it wasn't more than a month ago that the last competition ended and here we are again. A major change in USA TV coverage: Fox has lost the rights after 15+ years and BeIN now has the rights, which will mean a return to some English commentary options.

    Anyway, Delfin did the business against Nacional (PAR) last night: 3-0 and should be set to advance. Bolivar-Defensor ended 2-4, with Bolivar accumulating two red cards and Defensor catching the Bolivar keeper off his line with a very, very long chip shot that shifted the score to that 2-4 final. At 2-3 Bolivar might have had a chance going back to Uruguay but I would assume they are done with that very late goal.

    I am currently watching Dep La Guaira-Real Garcilaso. About 20 minutes in and not much to report. Return legs for these 3 ties happen next week and then we start to see some big sides in the 2nd round (although Bolivar is certainly a historical continental club).

    Since I know some folks might be losing sleep over this, we still have a few weeks before the free for all that is Round 1 of the Copa Sudamericana, a competition that now seems to involve every club team playing on the continent that is not involved with the Libertadores.

    #2
    The first round is finished. Both legs of Bolivar-Defensor Sporting were thrilling. Defensor won on away goals. Delfin-Nacional was probably the least interesting, but Delfin showed that the small side from Ecudaor was more than a one-year fluke. We'll see as the qualifying rounds become more difficult how things will play out for them. And Dep La Guaira from Venezuela squeaked by with a 93rd minute goal in the second leg to win that tie on away goals. I think Real Garcilaso was probably the better side over 90 but made a huge mistake at the end.

    We saw two long-range chipped goals: Defensor in the first leg in La Paz and Garcilaso in this second leg. I'm hoping the overall quality of these ties is foreshadowing a thrilling tournament.

    Some big sides enter this next round, including some former LIbertadores champions. For the neutrals, I'd say that The Strongest-Libertad should be the most interesting tie, although neither side is a glamor side. I will being paying special attention to U de Chile-Melgar and hoping the Chileans can make up for a horrific 2017 tournament.

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      #3
      Thanks for starting the thread, Daniel. I’m sure Sam and I will keep you company until the glory hunters pile in about 10 months’ time...

      I have to confess I missed out on most of this first preliminary round, having just seen some highlights of the first Bolivar-Defensor game but it sounds like the second leg was exciting enough.

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        #4
        I figured once we got into some sides from Brazil and Argentina that you two would appear. Both legs of Bolivar-Defensor were very entertaining.

        The second round started tonight. I don't know if we had any upsets. Libertad is probably looking good to go through after drawing 1-1 at The Strongest. In fact. Defensor and Libertad seemed ready to play at altitude. Melgar looked good beating a very inept U de Chile (unfortunately), and Atletico-MG should be in good shape with a 2-2 draw at Danubio (Oliveira scoring both goals for Mineiro and showing that he still has a scoring touch).

        Since we've been using the LIbertadores thread for Sudamericana as well in the past couple years, I'll add that it looks like Chapecoense are about to draw 0-0 at Unon la Calera (a side I don't konw). Chape are lucky to get the draw and their keeper made some important saves.

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          #5
          I see Palestino kick off their campaign tonight. Does their affiliation with the country and its troubles cause any issues when they play, in a "politics and football don't mix" kind of way?

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            #6
            Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
            I see Palestino kick off their campaign tonight. Does their affiliation with the country and its troubles cause any issues when they play, in a "politics and football don't mix" kind of way?
            Chile seems to have a variety of clubs with links to other nations from which Chilean's emigrated: Audax Italiano and Espanola are two that come to mind. I don't follow Chilean football close enough to know if Palestine's political situation has affected how the club are viewed positively or negatively. But, again, within a Chilean league context, it's a club like others that has ties to immigration and identity.

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              #7
              And those links are very old. The club was founded in the 20s.

              Though I do find it interesting that they are sponsored by the Bank of Palestine. It may well be that their links have actually intensified recently.

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                #8
                A convincing 2-0 win for Talleres against a disjointed São Paulo team. ‘Talheres’ in Portuguese means cutlery so it gave the Brazilian press the chance for some headlines referring to them being eaten for dinner by the Argentinians. I was pleased to see Guinazu, a former Libertadores winner with Inter and late of Vasco, turning out for Talleres at the age of 40.

                It’s raining so heavily in Rio that people have been advised not to leave their homes but somehow Botafogo’s Sul-Americana game with Defensa y Justiça went ahead on a predictably waterlogged pitch. Erik won it for Botafogo with a fantastic strike just 15 seconds before the end of added time.

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                  #9
                  São Paulo managed just two feeble shots on target and never looking like clawing back the two goal deficit against Talleres, even before Everton was sent off for a face-high challenge. Manager André Jardine won’t survive this.

                  Atlético Mineiro strolled to a 3-0 half-time lead against Danúbio but we’re pegged back to 3-2 to ensure a nervy finish. Their reward in the next round is to return to Uruguay to face Defensor in exactly the same stadium as they played Danúbio in the first leg.

                  Goal of the round has to be Oscar Cardozo’s effort from inside his own half as Libertad thrashed The Strongest 5-1.

                  The remaining match this evening should see Atlético Nacional qualify.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                    I see Palestino kick off their campaign tonight. Does their affiliation with the country and its troubles cause any issues when they play, in a "politics and football don't mix" kind of way?
                    Extremely long-term listeners of Hand Of Pod might recall the flamboyant Argentine striker and one-time, briefly, River Plate cult favourite Cristian 'Fat Fab' Fabbiani (the nickname was one we gave him). I had the idea that he once moved directly from Palestino to Beitar Jerusalem, but on looking this up to double check I discover my memory was playing tricks on me: he was actually a Lanús player during both spells, and was loaned first to Palestino and then, a year after that loan spell ended, to Beitar Jerusalem.

                    Anyway. What I do know is that Palestino caused a bit of a stir – and if I remember rightly got a mention in WSC – a few years ago when they played with shirts featuring a representation of Israel's pre-1967 borders. I can't remember exactly when this was but it was definitely since I moved to BA; I'd guesstimate about 2014 or 2015. So the connection is real and heartfelt, yes.

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                      #11
                      Ah, new board doesn't recognise en dashes, hey? Interesting.

                      Of course, I'll probably be the only one annoyed by that.

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                        #12
                        Atletico Nacional are the last side to advance with a 0-0 draw tonight and a 1-0 victory away last week. I'm a bit disappointed that this means Atl Nacional-Libertad is the draw in the next round, since these two sides are probably the best equipped to make some kind of run in the group stage. With that said, Atl Nacional only scoring 1 goal against La Guaira would have me worried if I was a fan of the Medellin side. Libertad looked excellent, as Cantagalo highlighted.

                        BTW, that was the third long goal we've seen in the Libertadores this year. Cardoza goal was the longest but there have also been two just inside the half. Perhaps we'll see some kind of record set in 2019 if keepers don't start guarding the line a bit more.

                        I don't know if I will finish Corinthians-Racing tonight but that is clearly one of the ties of the round in the Sudamericana. I can't remember the last time that we've seen two very big sides match up in Round 1 of the Sudamericana but in the past Argentine and Brazilian sides didn't enter until the second round. There were some interesting ties last year, if I remember correctly but not like this.

                        @cantagalo: Do you know why the Flu Sudamericana match had a date change? It was supposed to happen last night but was pushed back a week (more or less).
                        Last edited by danielmak; 15-02-2019, 04:51.

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                          #13
                          The date change was due to Flu playing Flamengo in a rearranged Taça Guanabara semi-final last night. The match was postponed from last weekend due to the deaths of the 10 boys at the Flamengo training centre. There was a moving ceremony before the game.

                          https://www.bbc.com/sport/av/football/47253682
                          Last edited by cantagalo; 15-02-2019, 17:03.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Sam View Post
                            Ah, new board doesn't recognise en dashes, hey? Interesting.

                            Of course, I'll probably be the only one annoyed by that.
                            I’ve been having problems with it not recognising apostrophes.

                            Edit: see, no apostrophe in ‘I’ve’.

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                              #15
                              It is there.

                              If you are on an iPhone or other iOS device, try going to Settings : General : Keyboard (on your device, not the Forum) and turn Smart Punctuation off.

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                                #16
                                Thanks!

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                                  #17
                                  Yeah, I see punctuation sometimes and just get a white box sometimes. Only ever posting on my computer, and only ever viewing on my computer.

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by cantagalo View Post
                                    The date change was due to Flu playing Flamengo in a rearranged Taça Guanabara semi-final last night. The match was postponed from last weekend due to the deaths of the 10 boys at the Flamengo training centre. There was a moving ceremony before the game.

                                    https://www.bbc.com/sport/av/football/47253682
                                    As there's no Brazilian football thread (my fault), I thought I'd try your patience and put this here.

                                    The final of the first stage of the Rio State Championships (the Taça Guanabara) between Fluminense and Vasco was played on Sunday and an already farcical tournament plumbed new depths.

                                    There has has been a long-running dispute between the two clubs over which team's supporters should occupy the South end of the Maracanã. Flu argued that as they have a contract to play their home games there. However, Vasco were officially the 'home' team. A judge ruled in favour of Flu but Vasco had already sold tickets for the South end which led to the courts ordering the match to be played behind closed doors.

                                    The match started in an empty stadium with the only noise coming from gunshots and explosions from outside the Maracanã as police battled the 20,000 Vasco fans who had turned up anyway. Probably wisely, they decided to open the gates after 30 minutes of the match and 20,000 Vascaínos trooped into the stadium along with a handful of brave Flu supporters at the other end. And so between them, the clubs and administrators managed to destroy what little credibility the Carioca Championship had remaining and shattered the brief outbreak of solidarity between Rio clubs mourning the deaths of the 10 Flamengo boys.

                                    As for the match, Vasco won 1-0. And in the victory celebrations on the pitch, Vasco's Fellipe Bastos was filmed singing a homophobic chant aimed at Fluminense supporters.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Realistically, any big event gets its own thread so this seems like a good thread for any discussion of club football in South America. I appreciate the reports (esp. since GolTV in the US has not renewed the rights to Brasil football--we'll see if that changes when the league starts again but in the past they would show a few Paulista games each week and then any Rio State matches played between the big sides plus the two finals).

                                      The third round qualifiers will conclude next week. And some of the first round ties in the Sudamericana have concluded. The story for me is the lack of quality among the Colombian sides. It was only 3-4 years back when Santa Fe won a trophy, Atl Nacional won multiple trophies, and other sides were going deep into both competitions. Atletico Nacional is still in the mix to get into the group stage of the LIbertadores but having scored 1 goal in three games, I wouldn't hold my breath. Libertad has shown to be a much better side so far so hopefully they'll make it.

                                      Talleres were looking excellent but allowed Palestino to come back. It will be tough for Talleres on the road but they certainly have players with experience.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        If this is a catch-all South America thread now, then forgive the possible spamming but Fanatiz have just started sponsoring the podcast. They stream the Argentine league and cup – legally, live and in HD, with games also available on demand should you miss them live – plus a couple of other competitions, to the world outside Latin America. They did have the Libertadores and Sudamericana in North America last year, but I think the beIN deal this year has thrown that up in the air a bit, and when I last asked them they were still in talks to renew those deals. Anyway, podcast listeners can get a 20% discount on their first three months with the code 'hopfz' (without the quote marks). Here's a link to their site (full disclosure: that's a referral link which will tell them I sent you on behalf of Hand Of Pod).

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                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by danielmak View Post
                                          The third round qualifiers will conclude next week. And some of the first round ties in the Sudamericana have concluded. The story for me is the lack of quality among the Colombian sides. It was only 3-4 years back when Santa Fe won a trophy, Atl Nacional won multiple trophies, and other sides were going deep into both competitions. Atletico Nacional is still in the mix to get into the group stage of the LIbertadores but having scored 1 goal in three games, I wouldn't hold my breath. Libertad has shown to be a much better side so far so hopefully they'll make it.
                                          I was thinking exactly the same thing. With the elimination of Independiente and a tough second leg for Atlético Nacional, it's possible that both Medellin and Bogotá could be without representation in the group stage. I have a personal interest as I'm planning a few weeks there on my way to Brazil in April and I'd love to see some Libertadores action.

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            Brazilian clubs are self-destructing in the first round of the Sudamericana. Chapecoense, Bahia and Santos (managed by Sampaoli) are already out and Corinthians and Fluminense could only draw their home legs. Only Botafogo are definitely through to the second round.

                                            Bahia and Santos can't even claim tough opposition as it was the Uruguayan versions of Liverpool and River Plate they lost to.

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                                              #23
                                              Does the Colombian league season still consist of two halves, each of up to 28 games for the two teams who make the championship final? Plus a Cup where everyone plays a minimum of 10 games in the opening group stage? This was the state of play in Football Manager 2010, and those games normally get the structure right. It's an absolute marathon.

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                                                #24
                                                Sort of.

                                                Still two halves, but with 20 teams in top flight. So, 19 matches in the "league", then up to six more in the playoffs, as the quarters, semis and finals are all two-legged.

                                                The Copa Colombia eliminated the group stage last year.

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                                                  #25
                                                  You're a marvel, Ursus. I don't suppose you also know whether the Copa Colombia group stage did actually feature the same teams in the same groups every season, as FM10 had it? I couldn't work this out, as the groups didn't seem to be strictly geographical.

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