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    The official Wenger Out thread

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/philmcnulty/2010/02/john_terry_parted_with_the.html

    Is Wenger the most indulged manager in world football?

    When he first arrived he seemed modest, happy to pay respect to English football and its traditions, saying his ideal would be a mix of English spirit and Latin technique. But then it's easier to be magnanimous when you win every season.

    Now I don't follow him closely, but I think the big change happened when Mourinho arrived, unusually a coach easily as clever as him (like Guus who showed him up too) and he realised the combo of him and Abramovich's money meant his luck had run out. Now he could no longer outwit the opposition, he decided on a bargain-basement Barcelona route, except that if Guardiola didn't win the league or CL on a regular basis he'd be ejected quicker than you can say local hero.

    When he received some mild criticism from shareholders, he and his media groupies reacted with the same level of outrage as if they'd spat in his face and he started negotiating with Real Madrid. The idea that he'd leave the cushiest job in football where he's all powerful for the Madrid madhouse was always fanciful I think.

    Is it the truth that dare not speak its name that AW knows that they're not seriously in contention for titles, but has to pretend to the fans they are, and he's quite happy raking in the plaudits like a club version of Holland? His Herbert Lom impersonation suggests not, and he thought his strategy could be a title winning one.

    Has his superiority complex finally caught up with him? Disdainful of the Carling Cup, the FA cup, defending, and English football in general, will his brainwashed followers ever pull back the Wizard of Oz's curtain to reveal the all too fallible non-genius within? Er...

    Fantastic rant by Myles Palmer below if you haven't read it.

    Does Stan Kroenke realise Wenger is a recidivist?

    By Myles Palmer

    Owner Stan Kroenke was there on Sunday.

    He saw Arsenal get hammered 3-1 by Manchester United.

    Stan witnessed a meltdown he probably didn’t understand.

    He saw a side that was fine for five minutes, panicked after 10 minutes, and was finished when the first goal went in after 33.

    The billionaire sports mogul caught Arsenal at a very unusual moment : the moment when Arsene Wenger, more than ever before, blamed his players.

    Wenger said, "It's difficult to accept but easy to explain: we were poor defensively and offensively, cohesion-wise, and delivered an off-the-mark performance completely. That's why we were well beaten. We gave them too much room and were naive. It's a massive blow and a massive disappointment. We were never close in our marking, and you do not win big games like that."

    As I have said for nine years, Wenger is a choreographer, not a tactician.

    A choreographer is someone who obsessively interested in his own ballet rehearsals. A tactician like George Graham or Fabio Capello looks at the other guy's ballet and nullifies it. A tactician teaches attack and defence. A choreographer does one thing, a tactician does two things.

    Wenger does not teach defence.
    He does not teach defence.
    HE DOES NOT TEACH DEFENCE.
    How long have I been saying that? Feels like seven years.

    Wenger can't think on his feet. He's very good at most things but he's hopeless at that. He plans his match and lets it roll and can't change a game, except by throwing on two more strikers and hoping for the best.

    Look at the first ten minutes, when Nani was annihilating Clichy, and United almost scored three goals. A proper manager would gave jumped to his feet and screamed at Nasri to cover his left back, as Graham Rix used to cover Kenny Sansom, as Brian Marwood used to cover Nigel Winterburn.

    By contrast, when Fabregas ran away from Scholes twice, Sir Alex switched Carrick and Scholes, which changed the game.

    The first goal, when Almunia slapped in a Nani cross, ended the contest after 33 minutes.

    Nasri didn't even back up his French mate when Nani took on Clichy and floated the cross that Almunia tipped into his own net. Nasri stood alongside Clichy and watched ! Don Howe would weep if he saw that. George Graham would never accept what Nasri did there and Tony Adams would have thrown him against the dressing room wall.

    It’s 0-0 at home in the biggest game in the season and Nasri just stood there like a plank? Brian Clough would have yanked Nasri off before the re-start. I once saw Clough take Stuart Pearce off at West Ham for making two mistakes.

    The goal for 2-0 was the best Premier League goal of the season so far. Rooney's 100th was very special.

    On the breakaway for the third goal, Clichy didn’t go to Park. He ran towards him and then stopped. What an idiot ! What an amateur ! What a muppet ! He gave Park all the time he needed to slot his shot between the near post and Almunia.

    That is where we are : A side that can't beat a very good team of experienced men, but can defeat 14 of the mediocre sides below them.

    Chelsea will smash Arsenal again on Sunday.

    But, after a draw against Liverpool, Arsenal should still win most of their remaining matches and finish third.

    Arshavin has felt unloved from day one. The club signed the captain of Russia for a club record fee of £16 million but the manager did not mention his name to the press for three weeks. The media-manipulating maestro, who praises his players daily in the papers and on TV and radio, did not mention his new star for three weeks. To anybody who pays daily attention to Arsenal, that signal told us that the arrival of Arshavin, a tough little man with two magic feet, had put a few noses out of joint in the Colney creche.

    Arshavin really enjoyed watching Arsenal on TV, so he signed, and then saw how many children were in the dressing room. He realised he had made a big mistake but he tried to fit in, tried to play. Recently, he told Wenger to sign a striker for him to play with. But his form dipped, as he is carrying an injury to his right foot. Like Gallas, he is playing through pain.

    Against Manchester United, Arshavin performed more selfishly than I've ever seen him play in any game for Russia, Zenit or Arsenal. He had a terrible game. The last time I saw a player of that ability play so badly was Cristiano Ronaldo in the Champions League Final that United lost 2-0 to Barcelona last May. That was because Cristiano has an emotional age of thirteen.

    Arshavin showed his rage, his angst, his disdain for Wenger, by playing as he did, always trying to shoot when he should have passed. He despairs, as I do. What we saw was a world class talent in despair, a tortured soul.

    Wenger wants a young, swift team playing ten-yard passes, quick triangles of attack, passing and moving in swarms, giving each other options, and that works well enough to keep Arsenal in the Top Four.

    In my book, Wenger is a recidivist, someone who repeatedly commits the same offence. He is compelled to do the same thing again and again.

    His team of midgets was never in this game and Wes Brown and Jonny Evans had an easy ride against one five foot five inch striker.

    Almunia once said Wenger wants a team of nice guys who get on well together. Clearly, he doesn't tell them when they're doing things wrong. He just lets them play and never addresses their mistakes, so they keep making the same mistakes. That's not coaching, it's abdication,

    He indulges his players, especially his French players. Hleb was a better footballer than Nasri, a guy who worked hard, kept the ball, linked well with Flamini, Fabregas and the others. Hleb could not finish but he contributed more than Nasri is doing now.

    So, once again, Arsenal were smashed and humiliated and their fans were embarrassed.

    This was the first time that Manchester United have beaten Arsenal home and away since the Premier League started.

    More notably, it was the first time Wenger has blamed his players on such a scale.

    He said : It was their fault, not my fault.

    Of course it's his fault. He's been allowed to create a one-man club. Like all dictators, he surrounded himself with yes-men and became delusional. He created a campus for young millionaires, and installed himself as the Vice Chancellor, the Bursar, the professor of sports medicine, professor of statistics, professor of history, professor of spin.

    This 3-1 thrashing by Manchester United was the best example you will ever see of a manager who is not interested in anything except his own vision of how he wants his team to play.

    The biggest mistake the board has made since playing those two Champions League seasons at Wembley was to give Wenger control of the entire playing budget.

    He was given far too much power and he used it to ruthlessly pursue his obsessive vision. The board’s rationale was : He is a workaholic genius, a polymath who takes a lot of weight off us, he gets a lot of decisions right that we would get wrong, and he’s a stoic who accepts that suffering is part of his very difficult job, especially during a historic stadium move. We will be preoccupied for the next six years by the financing and building and opening of the new stadium, the biggest and most complex project any football club has ever attempted.

    So, as Mihir Bose revealed years ago, Wenger was given full control of a budget that covers transfers and wages. They are not separate. He controls both and makes all the decisions, keeps within his budget, and makes a profit, which no other manager does.

    The killer point is this : Wenger alone chooses whether to spend money on new players, or on new contracts for his existing squad.

    He sells us the future, buying more and more kids, so that no other coach could make sense of his squad, and thereby keeping himself in a £5 million-a-year job in perpetuity. He has made sure he is irreplaceable. No manager in the history of association football has sold potential for so long or rewarded failure so generously.

    All over the world, Arsenal fans wonder : Why doesn’t Wenger buy the players we obviously need?

    The answer is simple. He sold two Africans to Manchester City for £40 million and used most of that money to give new contracts to 18 players who have not won anything and will not win anything under his guidance.

    This control-freak's idea of heaven is a team that doesn’t give him any aggro, where nobody ever puts in a transfer request. By paying £60,000 a week to Eduardo and Walcott, he owns them now and he will continue to own them for 20 years after they retire. He boasted that Almunia had no CV before he came to Arsenal and he insults us by touting him for England, a comment which infuriated Fabio Capello, among others. Eboue, Denilson and Diaby can never be sold because nobody else would pay those wages to them. Who would pay money for Almunia?

    So everybody at the Colney creche owes their entire career to him, apart from Arshavin, Gallas and Vermaelen.

    He really hates buying a used footballer who might have an opinion and challenge him and ask why he doesn't teach defence, or work on scoring from crosses, or rehearse a few surprising free-kicks or practice the many other things that this Arsenal team cannot do and will never do while Wenger is in charge.

    He has tunnel-vision. His sole interest is in pursuing his vision of how his team should play. We saw that clearly on Sunday. The eleven he picked was the eleven that could best deliver his vision of how football should be played. Only a delusional sports scientist would have fielded that eleven against battling champions who have won three league titles in a row. He deserved to get smashed.

    Wenger’s narrow, blinkered vision is more important to him than trophies, and that’s why he’s failed to win trophies he could have won, including four European finals that he has lost with Monaco and Arsenal.

    When I went to Barnet that night with Mark Jacob, and saw Portsmouth play Arsenal reserves, I was staggered by how one-dimensional Arsenal were.

    I was amazed. It was mind-boggling. I did not think it was possible for eleven young men to play football in such a one-dimensional manner. If they had won, no problem. But they lost 2-0.

    The culture that Wenger's pampering has created is artificial and fragile, and it has no leader other than him. When Keown tried to tell Senderos something, he walked away. An allegedly intelligent young Swiss centreback didn’t want to learn from an English winner. Then when Liverpool mugged Senderos at Anfield, he broke down in tears in the dressing room. And then he phoned his parents in Switzerland. Senderos hardly played after that trauma.

    Mikael Silvestre said Arsenal was too French. But when Man United wanted to unloaded an old crock, Silvestre joined Arsenal.

    So what do I really think of Arsene Wenger?

    A messiah who is well past his sell-by date.

    He did magnificent things for eight years and those colossal achievements have been extensively and lovingly documented by yours truly on ANR, and in several books, including The Professor.

    But Wenger is now revealed as a flawed character pursuing a misguided strategy and managing an unbalanced squad of players who know they cannot win the league.

    Since they are all foreigners, these players only come alive for the Champions League. Against Porto they will be trying. When Arsenal play Porto, all the French boys will get a game, and they'll all be hunting for the ball and concentrating and giving 110%.

    That is the only competition Wenger really cares about. He can’t imagine retiring before he’s won it and I can't imagine how somebody who doesn't teach defence, and who has Almunia in goal, thinks he can win the Champions League.

    Wenger wanted and got a convenient away draw in the FA Cup at Stoke, and that gave him the chance to chuck the FA Cup and joke about it afterwards, ignoring the feelings of the 6,500 mug punters who went up to Stoke to support their beloved team.

    Towards the Spring of 2008-2009, I called my builder Jimmy, who is a Gooner, mainly to ask him if he'd been to Arsenal much recently. He has season tickets and used to watch the reserves as well.

    Jimmy said, "I haven’t been at all this season. I’ve rented out my season tickets. Wenger's f***ed up the team. We need more power in midfield, more power in defence. I’m not going back while he’s the manager."

    Feb 2, 2010

    #2
    The official Wenger Out thread

    There's an awful lot of truth in that, I'm afraid. The words "Puny Dribly" did keep circuiting my mind on Sunday. I'd hoped Vermaelen might provide some answers and Song's emergence make more of a difference but while they've been good, it's not really been enough. And yes, he doesn't teach defence. Maybe this is the best of all possible worlds, however.

    Comment


      #3
      The official Wenger Out thread

      But then it's easier to be magnanimous when you win every season.
      Wenger never won "every season". Arsenal have never successfully defended their title in Wenger's time.

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        #4
        The official Wenger Out thread

        True - but there were four seasons, from 2001-2002 to 2004-5 when they won trophies every season.

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          #5
          The official Wenger Out thread

          I agree with some of the points, esp Almunia and the team's general inability to defend. I'd also add playing a system which relies heavily on van Persie when his fitness record is so poor. BendtnerEduardoArshavin can't play that role.

          But it seems churlish to criticise when the team is "only" the 3rd best in the country. I don't think the current side is too far away. A proper GK, a CM to replace DiabyDenilson, a CF who can cover for van Persie. Wenger is a stubborn man though so we'll prob get a couple of 5 ft teenagers who have quick feet instead.

          Oh and Gael Clichy, what has happened to him? A real shame that Gibbs had his foot broken by that bellend in the CL, I was hoping he would get a long run in the side.

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            #6
            The official Wenger Out thread

            Those goalkeeping/striking/midfield weaknesses have been glaringly evident for some time and haven't been addressed and it looks like they never will be. It is only the current format of the Champions League that lets teams finish 4th and delude themselves that they are successful.

            On a different note, what does Pat Rice do at Arsenal apart from putting the cones out and listening to Arsene moaning during the game?

            Comment


              #7
              The official Wenger Out thread

              Arsenal are still - on the evidence of this season - comfortably the 3rd best team in the league. There are worst things to be and those who think otherwise should dig out some old videos featuring games from the twilight of the Graham era.

              However, what if Fabregas finally decides to go back Barcelona as is being rumoured again? Will it matter that much?

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                #8
                The official Wenger Out thread

                Yes, Pat Rice feels like some ageing verger of many years standing, very loyal but not really the sort of deputy who's seriously going to challenge the manager. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he refers to Wenger as "Your Reverence".

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                  #9
                  The official Wenger Out thread

                  wingco wrote:
                  Yes, Pat Rice feels like some ageing verger of many years standing, very loyal but not really the sort of deputy who's seriously going to challenge the manager. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he refers to Wenger as "Your Reverence".
                  Yeah, Wenger could do worse than follow the example of Ferguson, who was not to proud to receive input from someone he respected in Carlos Queiroz.

                  Nonetheless, I can think of many supporters who would gladly swap their own problems for those of Wenger's Arsenal. New stadium, net profit in transfers, nice style of football, chance of winning things, money to spend, stability. In fact, I can think of few clubs in Europe who are in a better overall position than Arsenal. That is almost entirely due to Wenger.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The official Wenger Out thread

                    Seems a bit too hasty to pin things on the fact that there are so few English players at the club. Being foreign didn't stop Emmanuel Petit, Patrick Vieira and Dennis Bergkamp from committing wholeheartedly to the Premiership. Even if Arsenal had fielded eleven Englishmen for the past two consecutive Sundays they would still have lost because of Wenger's tactics and approach. Perhaps I'm being hypersensitive? Other than those paragraphs it fairly conclusively nails Arsenal's malaise at the moment.

                    But petit vieira, overmars and bergkamp were tacked onto basically what was George Graham's defence. Arsenal still had a culture of raw aggression and a very experienced set of defenders who knew everything about defending. Wenger has gradually let that slide to the point where you have defenders running around cluelessly like vermaelen and clichy for drogba's second goal. Even the invincibles had martin keown

                    Things have gotten so bad now, that when arsenal lost 3-0 at home to chelsea, the papers were all reporting that the average chelsea player was 5 cm taller, and 10kg heavier than their arsenal equivalent. Arsenal used to have a team that was as physically powerful in their play, if not as malicious in their intent as chelsea's once. It's not that long ago either.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The official Wenger Out thread

                      Ah, but there are signs that Wenger has finally seen the light. Today he has lent Kyle Bartley to the Blades for 3 months. Clearly he has done this so that he can learn to defend in a more robust style! One suspects that the youngster might feel that he has been loaned to a different sport not just a different team.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The official Wenger Out thread

                        Except Keegan's (first) Newcastle didn't ship goals.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The official Wenger Out thread

                          meregreen wrote:

                          Nonetheless, I can think of many supporters who would gladly swap their own problems for those of Wenger's Arsenal. New stadium, net profit in transfers, nice style of football, chance of winning things, money to spend, stability. In fact, I can think of few clubs in Europe who are in a better overall position than Arsenal. That is almost entirely due to Wenger.[/quote]
                          Agreed - this is a "crisis" most clubs would gladly accept. What I don't understand is why Wenger won't take the simple steps of fixing what needs fixing. Addressing the problem of the goalkeeper alone wouldn't cost much and would make it much more likely they would win either the League or Champions League which are all he apparently feels are worth winning anyway.

                          The Board and the fans are also quite entitled to expect more than entry to the qualifiers to the Champions League gravy train and a bit of pressure placed on Wenger wouldn't be a bad thing.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The official Wenger Out thread

                            On a different note, what does Pat Rice do at Arsenal apart from putting the cones out and listening to Arsene moaning during the game?
                            when arsenal are losing i always enjoy the frequent shots of wenger, arm usually outstretched in disgust, ranting at pat rice who is always staring straight ahead with the same expressionless china-doll face.

                            However, what if Fabregas finally decides to go back Barcelona as is being rumoured again? Will it matter that much?
                            well, they'd lose their best player and wenger would be confronted with irrefutable evidence that his philosophy of team-building moves too slowly for the components of that team to remain in place until it's finished (see also flamini, hleb). is five years a reasonable time to spend putting together a team? the entire first world war from sarajevo to versailles was settled in five years.

                            Nonetheless, I can think of many supporters who would gladly swap their own problems for those of Wenger's Arsenal. New stadium, net profit in transfers, nice style of football, chance of winning things, money to spend, stability. In fact, I can think of few clubs in Europe who are in a better overall position than Arsenal. That is almost entirely due to Wenger.
                            that's all true. the problem people have, as myles palmer pointed out, is the groundhog day aspect of the last few seasons. palmer previously predicted wenger would "throw" the cup game against stoke, and the arsenal team that day suggested he was right. sure wenger sent on experienced substitutes, but they wouldn't have been substitutes in a fixture he was taking seriously. can he really afford to be so snobby about the cup?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The official Wenger Out thread

                              But Wenger still knew enough about defence and tactics back then to enable that defence to become the tightest defence in Europe from around 1998-2000. During our Treble-winning season Arsenal's defence was statistically the best in Europe. It helps when you have Petit, Vieira, Overmars and Bergkamp in front of you of course but having dazzling attackers didn't prevent, say, Keegan's Newcastle from shipping goals like sawdust. Wenger knew what he was doing.
                              why are you giving wenger the credit for a defence that was actually put together by george graham? wenger deserves credit for having the wisdom to see that it wasn't broke and didn't need fixing, but no more than that surely.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                The official Wenger Out thread

                                Mind you, Wenger did also have a defence that had a long sequence of clean sheets during the run to the CL final in 05/06. There must have been some defensive nous from Wenger in there as Flamini, Senderos and Eboue were regulars...

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  The official Wenger Out thread

                                  Towards the Spring of 2008-2009, I called my builder Jimmy, who is a Gooner, mainly to ask him if he'd been to Arsenal much recently. He has season tickets and used to watch the reserves as well.

                                  Jimmy said, "I haven’t been at all this season. I’ve rented out my season tickets. Wenger's f***ed up the team. We need more power in midfield, more power in defence. I’m not going back while he’s the manager."

                                  is this bloke the ultimate spoilt bastard?...

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    The official Wenger Out thread

                                    ale wrote:
                                    Towards the Spring of 2008-2009, I called my builder Jimmy, who is a Gooner, mainly to ask him if he'd been to Arsenal much recently. He has season tickets and used to watch the reserves as well.

                                    Jimmy said, "I haven’t been at all this season. I’ve rented out my season tickets. Wenger's f***ed up the team. We need more power in midfield, more power in defence. I’m not going back while he’s the manager."

                                    is this bloke the ultimate spoilt bastard?...
                                    Exactly what I was thinking.

                                    Third in the Premier League, still in the Champions League and this big baby stays away in protest, with the journalist using it to prove his point.

                                    Pathetic.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      The official Wenger Out thread

                                      lee dixon on BBC site today:

                                      During my time at Arsenal I am not saying that we, as a back four, did not get coached - we had been coached earlier and we knew each other well - but basically Wenger just let us get on with it.

                                      Yet I am not sure who works with the defenders now. There is something really wrong with their organisation because, if they cannot defend breakaways - and they haven't done so at all recently - then surely they should be doing something about it.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        The official Wenger Out thread

                                        The answer to Wenger's goalkeeping problem is playing at Griffin Park for the rest of the season. His name is Wojciech Szczesny.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          The official Wenger Out thread

                                          Cantaglo, is this true? Sczczeny had a game for Arsenal early on this season, and I thought he looked excellent. But is he really, say, Lehmann quality?

                                          Clichy especially has been a liability the past few games. The 4-3-3 Wenger has playing lately really does depend on having superlative full-backs who can both dribble and defend (since clearly Eduardo and Nasri or Walcott or whoever is playing on the wings can't be relied on to drop back and defend).

                                          Comment


                                            #22
                                            The official Wenger Out thread

                                            Cantaglo, is this true? Sczczeny had a game for Arsenal early on this season, and I thought he looked excellent. But is he really, say, Lehmann quality?
                                            Well, he's just 19 and he's only played a dozen games for Brentford but I have never seen a single player make such an impact on a team. He's tall, commanding in the air and has an authority that has bred confidence into a previously hesitant and nervous back four. (Admittedly the emergence of Leon Legge and Ipswich loanee Tommy Smith have helped as well).

                                            And then there are the saves. There are at least a couple every game where you find yourself wondering just how he's managed to keep the ball out. Leeds, Carlisle, Norwich and Gillingham fans will know exactly what I mean.

                                            Better than Lehmann? Potentially, yes. And he also seems to be a thoroughly well-balanced and likeable young man which would also be an improvement on Lehmann.

                                            Have a look for yourself.

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              The official Wenger Out thread

                                              The problem is seemingly easily solved: employ a dedicated defensive coach. George Graham isn't doing much these days is he?

                                              Comment


                                                #24
                                                The official Wenger Out thread

                                                Except Keegan's (first) Newcastle didn't ship goals.

                                                Well, They shipped every goal that man utd needed them to. actually newcastle were pretty much so dangerous with two wingers, ferdinand rampaging through the middle and beardsley knitting it all together, that it was only when they started to lose forward momentum after christmas that people started to notice that Peacock, barton, albert, srnicek/hislop etc just weren't very good at all.

                                                But it wasn't that they made mistakes, Everyone makes mistakes, it's that they were punished nearly every time, particularly in the last couple of minutes of games.

                                                I mean even against a blackburn team that were probably under instructions from jack walker to throw the game, shearer and fenton (two geordies) broke and ran up the other end to score two goals. Leading to a silence every bit as confused as when liverpool fans thought that they had just handed man utd a third successive title by beating blackburn in 1995.

                                                Their heartbreaking run of late defeats and draws that fucked them up in the end like so many heartbreaking things was of course absolutely hilarious from a slightly different viewpoint.

                                                Mind you, Wenger did also have a defence that had a long sequence of clean sheets during the run to the CL final in 05/06. There must have been some defensive nous from Wenger in there as Flamini, Senderos and Eboue were regulars...

                                                to be fair, real madrid were utterly shit that year, Juventus were also completely rancid, and to a certain extent villareal just choked. Arsenal would have gotten a much tougher game from spurs (god help us) than real madrid that season.

                                                Because I think that, no matter how well-schooled and well-drilled they may have been by Graham, they still would have leaked goals without the presence of a manager who knows how to organise a team. Plus, when most of that generation had moved on and the Invincibles were at their peak Arsenal were still resilient defensively.

                                                I don't know if they were that defensively resillient actually. Wenger's teams in that era from 2001-2004 seemed to believe that the best form of defence was "we'll get our two early goals, and we'll see where we go from there." You forget how pissed scared teams were of henry, pires, and ljungberg getting behind them. They also had martin keown and sol campbell (at his peak) and a young kolo toure, so they had a very good balance of experience, speed, and sheer naked violence and aggression.

                                                Something else that should be considered about arsenal's current back four is that william gallas is their tallest first choice defender at six feet tall. no wonder drogba loves playing against them. Not only do they not know what they're doing, but he can pick them up and carry them around if one of them actually gets in his way.

                                                Comment


                                                  #25
                                                  The official Wenger Out thread

                                                  I think we're agreeing, TMK. I think teams can protect defences simply through being sufficiently threatening up front, as long as they have a strong midfield shield. Hence the difference Davids made at Barca, that losing Makalele made to RM, and that losing Petit/Vieira then Flamini did to Arsenal.

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