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    Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

    And still finish only 4th....

    2 points per game average is normally enough to win most leagues. Isn't that clear evidence the Premier League is not competitive?

    For every place up the League you climb you get an extra £700k in prize money. So Man Utd got 20 times the amount of money as Derby. Are they 20 times better than Derby? Ok bad example...

    As long as these desparities exist on top of the Champion's League funding the top 4, above and beyond any other side. This will remain the same unless a team has a remarkable season.

    #2
    Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

    Harbinger is Kevin Keegan and I claim my £5.00!

    But at least he's not Scudamore.

    Comment


      #3
      Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

      2 points per game average is normally enough to win most leagues.

      Not sure of that. Or at least the other English divisions this season don't suggest so. Second place seems more typical.

      Championship - 92 pts. = Champs
      League One - 92 pts. = Joint top
      League Two - 92 pts. = Joint runners-up
      Conference - 92 pts. = Runners-up
      Conf North - 88 pts. = Runners-up
      Conf South - 88 pts. = Runners-up
      Northern Prem - 80 pts. = 4th
      Isthmian Prem - 84 pts. = Runners-up
      Southern Prem - 84 pts. = Runners-up

      Comment


        #4
        Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

        League One - 92 pts. = Joint top
        Forest finished 10 points behind Swansea sadly. Anyway even if 2 pts per game is enough for at least runners-up then 4th is still low.

        Comment


          #5
          Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

          Yes, joint with Swansea.

          4th is low for that average point pick up, but with 2 leagues out of 10 showing that result, it doesn't constitute clear evidence, on it's own, that the Premier League is uncompetitive.

          Comment


            #6
            Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

            I will admit my research was non-existant and purely opinion so i checked up over the last few years

            Year______FLD1_________FLD2_______FLD3
            07/08___1st by 11______Joint 1st_____Joint 2nd
            06/07___1st by 4 ______1st by 1 _____1st by 3
            05/06_____2nd_______1st by 10______1st by 6

            Over the last three years in the football league 2pts per game is enough to win 7 out of 9 titles. Some by a margin as high as 11 points.

            This does show how much more competitive the Football League is compared to the Premiership. Of course you get the odd year when one team creams the division and gets over 100 points but it is quite rare.

            Comment


              #7
              Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

              Looking into the Premiership over the last few years, 2 points per game would get you:

              Year___Pos___Pts behind Champions

              07/08__4th___11
              06/07__3rd___13
              05/06__4th___15
              04/05__4th___19
              03/04__3rd___14
              02/03__3rd___7
              01/02__4th___11

              Intersetingly it seems that the winning points tally to win the Premiership has been reducing over the last 4 years, however this shows 2 points per game is still nowhere near enough to win the league.

              Comment


                #8
                Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                We finished with 91 points in the Third Division in 2001, which gave us the runners-up spot. Those snivelling cunts from Reading complained that we'd been lucky to beat them, as they could only scrape 86 points. I'm relishing their relegation.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                  For every place up the League you climb you get an extra £700k in prize money. So Man Utd got 20 times the amount of money as Derby. Are they 20 times better than Derby? Ok bad example...

                  that doesn't include the basic money they get and the TV money per appearance. the ratio of the money received isn't 20:1.

                  The major reason why 2 points per game isn't enough to win the league isn't so much to do with the overall standard of the league, but is down to how well you have to be able to defend to challenge for the title. The teams at the top of the premiership play a very disciplined counter attacking football and
                  generally concede a goal in fewer than half the games they play. They usually also scores in nearly all of them, so you are going to get more than 2 points a game.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                    that doesn't include the basic money they get and the TV money per appearance. the ratio of the money received isn't 20:1.
                    I was purely talking about the 'league placing' prize money, not about any TV rights etc. Obviously Tv money etc does even out a team's overall funding in the Premier league but i just think giving Man Utd, twenty times the money Derby gets is a bit lop sided.

                    Everyone complains that teams at the bottom can never compete financially with those at the top, thus creating the chasm in quality, and the large points spread of the league.

                    I was just pointing out another hurdle (possibly unjustified) put in front of teams that finish in the bottom half of the table.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                      the teams at the bottom generally speaking never really can compete with the teams at the top, which I suppose is why they're at the bottom and the others are at the top.

                      That being said, Birmingham managed four draws against Liverpool and arsenal, and were a couple of refereeing decisions away from getting points from man utd and chelsea, and Reading beat liverpool soundly and drew away at old Trafford. bolton beat man utd and drew away at chelsea on the final day of the season. What exactly do you want to happen? Only derby and sunderland lost all eight games to the big four.

                      The thing that has made the league so uneven compared to the past is that now the best managers are at top sides, and they prepare the best and generally sign the best players. There is a lot of money flying around the 'second tier' of the premiership. A couple of good signings and a more than decent manager and one of those teams could make a big jump up.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                        A couple of good signings and a more than decent manager and one of those teams could make a big jump up.
                        Good signings are hard to come by for the second tier teams. If they are in competition with a Top 4 club they'll generally have to pay a massive wage differential to make up for not being in Europe.

                        The last big jump up cost half a billion pounds and much more to come due to insane wage levels.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                          I don't know about that. Everton aren't that far from liverpool, and you don't need to spend a huge amount of money to buy good players. Spurs had to blow it twice on the last day of the season to avoid being in the Champions league.

                          Roque santa cruz and benny mcCarthy both scored 19 goals a season for blackburn and they only cost 3.5 million. Vidic, evra and van der sar cost £14 million between them. Adebayor cost £7 million, none were on huge wages. The arsenal midfield this season of hleb, fabregas, flamini and eboue cost £13 million between them

                          A mid ranking premiership team can pay more for a player than an italian or spanish cl one, They should be able to buy some better players and make the step up.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                            If boffins could work out how to make Italian or Spanish clones, everyone's problems would be solved.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                              Vidic and Evra were battled over by at least two of the Top 4. For another team to gazump that they would need to offer serious money.

                              Fabregas, Flamini and Eboue all came on nominal fees to a club whose manager is reknowned for developing young players and who has signed approximately 100 players from abroad under the age of 21 in the last 7 years.

                              Italian and Spanish CL sides provide a better standard of living and (obviously) Champions League football. That's a significant amount of money that needs to be coughed up to overcome that gap.

                              Roque Santa Cruz and McCarthy are two excellent signings and do demonstrate that it can be done but I do think you underestimate bridging the gap.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                                The point about vidic and evra was that these players do not have to be particularly expensive, nor do they have to be paid a lot of money. You just have to be able to identify them and sign them. Vidic cost the same as kleberson. It's not really about the money, it's about being able to identify good players.

                                Premiership clubs exist pretty much at the top of the world foodchain for players. It should not be beyond the ability of midranking premiership clubs (who are amongst the very richest in the world) to sign some good players. They just have to show professionalism and a bit of footballing knowledge and not keep signing hacks like danny murphy, michael brown and that Davies guy.

                                Basically there are three or four clubs who need to sign a couple of really good players, a couple of decent players, and organise them into a proper team, and pray for a bit of luck with injuries. After all If Everton had won their games with liverpool, it would be them that was in the CL rather than liverpool. The first of those two games was rather contentious indeed, and by the time the second came around everton were missing their two best midfielders.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                                  And I am the Life wrote:
                                  the teams at the bottom generally speaking never really can compete with the teams at the top, which I suppose is why they're at the bottom and the others are at the top.

                                  That being said, Birmingham managed four draws against Liverpool and arsenal, and were a couple of refereeing decisions away from getting points from man utd and chelsea, and Reading beat liverpool soundly and drew away at old Trafford. bolton beat man utd and drew away at chelsea on the final day of the season. What exactly do you want to happen?
                                  Nice bit of point missing there.

                                  It's not the fact that the top four drop a few points to other sides (because they've left a morsel of a weakened side every now and then), it's the fact that the top four are immovable because of the financial differences both generally and the fact that they get more cash from prize money (because they finish higher), champions league money (because they're the only ones that qualify), and tv money (because they're on more than everyone else). Everton have had a great season, and have finished fifth - but they're 11 points behind fourth and have lost the same as Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool put together.

                                  It's what the Premier League was created for, because god forbid Derby should get the same income from the league and TV rights as Manchester United.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                                    The Prems reasoning for distributing money per place is to keep the clubs just below "in touch" with the top four as its the champs lge money thats distorting the prem.
                                    If all prem cash was distributed evenly then the top 4 would be even further ahead.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                                      No I don't think it is point missing. "Teams at bottom of the league don't beat teams at the top of the league shocker."

                                      Everton have had a good season alright, but that was because they started to make some good decisions in the transfer market. However they were rather unlucky with injuries to arteta and cahill, and also injuries to johnson who could have helped overcome the absence of the first two.

                                      This idea that the top four are permanent and immovable because of their massive financial power does seem to ignore the fact that two of them have more debt than the italian and spanish league put together, and are not meeting their repayments.

                                      Newcastle used to be a big 4 club once upon a time but then they started to make a lot of bad decisions. Now they are a bottom half of the table club, even though they are one of the richest clubs in the world. I'd believe that other premiership clubs were powerless to do anything about the dominance of the big four if Newcastle weren't paying Geremi £55,000 a week, Alan Smith £65,000 a week, Mark Viduka and Damien duff £70,000 a week, Obafemi Martins £90,000 a week and Michael Owen £105,000 a week along with god knows how much for all the other shite they have clogging up their squad with their associated wages and transfer fees.

                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                                        Broken Clock wrote:
                                        The Prems reasoning for distributing money per place is to keep the clubs just below "in touch" with the top four as its the champs lge money thats distorting the prem.
                                        If all prem cash was distributed evenly then the top 4 would be even further ahead.
                                        eh? It means that the top four get more money than the rest, but only a bit. It is to reward teams that finish further up the league, and give an incentive to keep going until the final day of the season. If results had gone their way, Sunderland could have made an extra £1.4 million.

                                        Comment


                                          #21
                                          Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                                          The big problem is not just the Premiership, but the mixture of it, the Champs League and the fact that the gap with the Championship is so wide.

                                          The Champs League rewards an already rewarded set of clubs by giving them an extra massive injection on top of already having won more from winning the PL, which in turn will have seen them get more from being on TV more times.

                                          True, Newcastle fucked themselves with bad decisions, but that's the problem - it's a brutal oligarchy which as long as the winners don't be stupid ala Newcastle is pretty safe. It takes club implosion to alter it. That's not a meritocracy, it's a self-reinforcing oligarchy and it's a meritocracy only in the sense of Michael Young's parody, in which the well-favoured and the lucky felt that they had 'earned' their place at the table.

                                          Still, it'll be interesting when only 3 clubs can be in the Champions League from next near. Presume one of the Big Four will start whinging.

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                                            #22
                                            Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                                            Still, it'll be interesting when only 3 clubs can be in the Champions League from next near. Presume one of the Big Four will start whinging.
                                            Eh? I know they've changed the qualifying structure but it just means that the top ranked countries have a greater chance of playing each other in the third qualifying round. There could still be four teams in the Champions League group stage from England though. Or has some rule come in that has completely passed me by?

                                            Comment


                                              #23
                                              Liverpool get magical 2 pts per game

                                              There are only five qualifying places available for "big" countries; the other five are reserved for those whose rankings are from 13 on down. Unless the draw for these two distinct qualifying "streams" is seeded to avoid such a result, it is almost certain that the representatives of at least two of the "Big Five" countries will meet in the qualifying round.

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