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The further decline of Paul Gascoigne
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Originally posted by Vicarious Thrillseeker View PostNot guilty
Hopefully the experience will lead to Gascoigne getting intensive therapy, if he's not already doing so.
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My post was rather rash. On further investigation, England has a battery law; Scotland does not. In the US, it varies by state.
EDIT: I think what I was trying to express in my post was that Gascoigne should have been tried on the grounds that the kiss caused harm, not that he intended to cause harm, but it's not clear to me whether the English battery law would permit that.
To give an idea of how much more sweeping the US law can be, this is apparently the Florida one:
A battery is simply touching someone against his or her will OR causing bodily harm to someone. You do not have to actually hurt someone to be convicted of battery.
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The crime of battery is subjective. In other words, if defendant A hits victim with X amount of force and the person does not suffer a severe injury because of it, it is just a simple misdemeanor battery. However, if defendant B hits victim with the same amount of force but his victim suffers severe injury, it is a felony battery. This is commonly referred to as the eggshell skull theory – you take your victim as you find them. It does not seem fair to punish the second defendant for the same conduct, does it? Nevertheless, that is the law.
I'd be interested in Ursus' view.Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 17-10-2019, 20:23.
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Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
Hopefully the experience will lead to Gascoigne getting intensive therapy, if he's not already doing so.Last edited by Ray de Galles; 18-10-2019, 12:38.
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In criminal cases, New York statutes charge people with assault. There is no criminal battery in New York. Under New York penal law, the definition of assault is intentionally striking another person, and causing injury to that person. Assault and battery are two different torts that are in civil cases, although there can be an overlap between the two. In terms of criminal cases, people are only charged with assault
https://www.newyorktriallawyers.org/...fined-new-york
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I suppose what we often do in the aftermath of such debatable verdicts is think of the penalty the accused probably deserved here then retro-fit it to a law we can find in either the UK or US (or maybe Europe and Canada also). It's not how law is done or should be done but it's how we feel when placing ourselves in the victim's shoes.
In Gascoigne's case, I'm on the fence between a heavy punitive fine or 6-9 months in the nick, but I doubt there's a law that fits that. The prosecution clearly set itself too tough a target by going for a crime that carries a maximum 10 year penalty.
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Sporting, sometimes I forget how long ago it was that I studied for the bar exam. "Offensive touching" must have been from my Criminal Law class at law school (which was even longer ago).
Satchmo, I tend to think that it wouldn't have been prosecuted here, and that instead the victim would have brought a civil suit that would have been settled for a non-trivial amount.
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Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
Satchmo, I tend to think that it wouldn't have been prosecuted here, and that instead the victim would have brought a civil suit that would have been settled for a non-trivial amount.
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Originally posted by Sporting View Post
Would the fact that a well-known person was involved make any difference in how the case was brought?
And that can cut both ways. It is now quite clear that Trump has committed dozens of sexual assaults, but has never been charged. Whereas Cuba Gooding Jr. was recently charged for an incident that would have registered as quite mild on the Trump scale (though those charges have since been dropped after Gooding put up a strong defence).
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To me it's a rather shocking verdict, and I felt sick when I read it. I have been assaulted in exactly this manner and it is really unpleasant. I remember it well over 20 years later - not just the assault, but the indifference all around (I was in a crowded pub) to the fact that it was an assault. Trying to parse whether an unwanted, un-asked for kiss is aggressive or sexual seems somewhat tendentious to me as I'd say it's both.
Yes, reparation and compensation is a better approach to most things than violent punishment, but simply letting him off is appalling and a 'fuck you' to the victim, as well as now being a high profile case delivering the basic message that forcefully kissing a stranger is not assault. This poor woman has already gone through loads of shit just to present this case and now it's just chucked away. I'd like to buy her something nice right now.
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- Mar 2008
- 20749
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
For anyone wishing to give Wor Bryan a slap- when visiting his son Otis down in the Stiperstones, they often pop into the village pub. My friends live nearby in a folly modelled on St Basil"s Cathedral, Moscow.
Of course if they had shown while I was visiting, a karaoke version of Mother of Pearl would have been more likely. Never meet your heroes
Ps Otis is the local master of foxhoundsLast edited by Duncan Gardner; 06-09-2020, 10:00.
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Mock Bryan all you like, but he'll have the last laugh when you're all sporting the fashionable gaucho look next spring.
I'm a big fan of pretty much all his stuff, band and solo, up to and including Avalon. Everything he has done since might come in useful if you are trying to smother a chemical fire, I suppose.
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