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Juan Sebastian Veron

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    #76
    Juan Sebastian Veron

    I also don't think that Rooney would adapt to playing Serie A...Gerrard is genuinely another one I defintely think would struggle. The times when his long shots are on target would add something to Serie A, I suppose.

    Bored, Inter Milan have dominated italian football for the last couple of seasons, winning the title by miles. Judging by the shower of washed up has beens, and never-were's that took the field against man utd last season all I'll say is that jermaine jenas and pennant would improve that team.

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      #77
      Juan Sebastian Veron

      Fair dues wl, I genuinely thought Bergkamp was only there for one season. From the the wiki page:
      In the summer of 1993, Bergkamp was signed by Inter for £12 million alongside his Ajax team-mate Wim Jonk. This made him the second most expensive player in the world at the time, second only to Gianluigi Lentini.

      However, his time in Italy was less successful. Although he won a second UEFA Cup in 1994, he found it hard to adapt to the Italian style of play, scoring just 11 times in 50 appearances. Bergkamp's poor form was not helped by his frosty relationship with the Italian press, and indeed some of his teammates.
      The main point this makes for me is: why do clubs spend so much money on a player and not then build the team around them? That goes for Veron at Man Utd too.

      I was genuinely surprised that Bergkamp was the 2nd most expensive player in the world at the time. Never knew that.

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        #78
        Juan Sebastian Veron

        Inter were terrible terrible against Chelsea last night. Chelsea could have played with ten men, leaving Cech at home, and still have won. Preseason and all that, except Chelsea didn't look like it was preseason. Ancelotti took it all in stride.

        But Javier Zanetti and John Terry at the center circle with Will Ferrell is not something you see every day. (He did the coin toss, wearing what looked like an Arsenal away shirt from a few seasons back. It was blue.) And Charlize Theron was there for her cause, which has something to do with Africa and children and Charlize Theron. And sitting right there within spitting distance of Ancelotti's bench? Ashton Kutcher.

        2-0 Chelsea, in front of 81,000. Mourinho playing his typically conservative 4-5-1 with Balotelli alone up front didn't help matters. Ibra came on again late, which tells me this deal is not done, but that's for the other thread. Did absolutely nothing.

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          #79
          Juan Sebastian Veron

          Harry- I agree about Veron and art. Some of these players probably style themselves artistes a bit, though.

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            #80
            Juan Sebastian Veron

            The original one about whether Man Utd and Chelsea fans wish they have kept hold of Veron. I am not in a position to answer that.

            Everyone regrets having ever signed him.

            Is Veron's position as a great player diminished because he couldn't or wouldn't adapt to the EPL? I think it is ludicrous to suggest this.

            He wasn't a great player. It's hard to be a great player when you're that physically and mentally slow and weak. If you're genuinely a great player, then an increase in pace shouldn't make you fall apart. To call veron a great player is to render the phrase almost meaningless.

            I can't remember whether anyone is saying that Serie A is presently lesser technically than the EPL but the suggestion is that it is getting that way. I still can't say that it is but, if it is, it isn't from improvement in the EPL, I would suggest.

            I think that there are plenty that are to be honest. I don't know if you've been watching the italian team recently, but once you factor out the 30+ year old players, the others really aren't any good. I mean not even as good as Ireland's players.

            If I am reading this right, TMK and, to an extent, Harry feel that technical merits of a league depend upon how many foreign players they can attract.

            no, it's that serie A can attract so few that it's now a backwater. By bringing in some of the top coaches in europe, and some of the top players in europe, the english have gone far beyond the italians who are now where england was post heysel, kind of semi-detatched from the rest of the world

            Mind you, Shearer wouldn't have been indulged by, cough, sympathetic referees in the same way as he was here so he may have much more time suspended. Similar with Gerrard.

            well that would depend who he was playing for, and are you suggesting that italian referee's are stricter with diving?

            Leaving aside fantasy football of whether players like Maradona would adapt to the EPL and whatnot, do you regard Ince and Beckham as better players than Veron as they were able to adapt to other leagues?

            they were just better players full stop.

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              #81
              Juan Sebastian Veron

              The Mighty Kubelgog!!! wrote:
              Of that list only pato is very good, and he's going to leave sooner rather than later and I still refuse to believe that Eto'o has wound up there.
              I disagree that Pato is the only 'good' player on that list. You seem to be using 'good' to mean something a little more exclusive.

              Edit- I know you say 'very good' but I couldn't tell if there if there was an implied emphasis on 'very', if you follow.

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                #82
                Juan Sebastian Veron

                The main point this makes for me is: why do clubs spend so much money on a player and not then build the team around them? That goes for Veron at Man Utd too.

                They completely changed the way they played to suit him, fucked over paul scholes, then realised too late that scholes was better than veron at what he did.

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                  #83
                  Juan Sebastian Veron

                  And if Serie A is officially a 'backwater' which other leagues fall into that category? How many non-backwater leagues do we have going right now?

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                    #84
                    Juan Sebastian Veron

                    Serie A is not a backwater compared to the vast majority of leagues. It's still miles ahead of most other European countries.

                    However, for a western European country of that size and (in footballing terms) wealth, and given the magnificent tradition it has had in the past, it's declined into something pretty pathetic. It ought to be a hell of a lot better than it currently is.

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                      #85
                      Juan Sebastian Veron

                      Bruno, being a backwater is almost separate to the quality. I think Serie A is a backwater because it is almost immune to outside influences. It's like england post heysel. No-one is coming in with new ideas, no-one is going abroad and coming back, (like for veron for example) and I don't know if it shows any sign of trying to fix itself.

                      it's cultural and financial problems have rendered it stagnant.

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                        #86
                        Juan Sebastian Veron

                        Agreed, it does appear stagnant right now. Too many older players still bossing things. I don't want it to turn into a league where old stars go to die.

                        Alright, if England is the top league, and Spain is second, which is third? Please don't say The Championship.

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                          #87
                          Juan Sebastian Veron

                          of all the leagues in europe I'd say that germany is the healthiest. It's not the richest, it doesn't have the best players, but it hasn't cannibalized all it's teams outside the big three/four, like spain and italy, and it doesn't seem to have pointlessly threatened the existence of it's biggest clubs like england.

                          It also doesn't seem to have notions.

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                            #88
                            Juan Sebastian Veron

                            Germany is also starting to lose the run of itself if that recent Mario Gomez transfer was anything to go by.

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                              #89
                              Juan Sebastian Veron

                              "notions" of...?

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                                #90
                                Juan Sebastian Veron

                                Conquering the world, presumably.

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                                  #91
                                  Juan Sebastian Veron

                                  hah, in ireland there is a terrible phrase that goes "notions above their station." I know that it comes from victorian england, but it took on a horrible life of their own

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                                    #92
                                    Juan Sebastian Veron

                                    Mind you, Shearer wouldn't have been indulged by, cough, sympathetic referees in the same way as he was here so he may have much more time suspended. Similar with Gerrard.

                                    well that would depend who he was playing for, and are you suggesting that italian referee's are stricter with diving?
                                    No, I suggest they would be stronger with the persistent fouling that Shearer and Gerrard get away with.

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                                      #93
                                      Juan Sebastian Veron

                                      I don't know about that. This is the league where marco matterazzi was 1/18th as likely to be sent off as he was in the premiership.

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                                        #94
                                        Juan Sebastian Veron

                                        Veron is God.

                                        Manchester United Blows.

                                        Fuck the Premiershit.

                                        Up the Primera.

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                                          #95
                                          Juan Sebastian Veron

                                          Jason, you should've said that in the comment section on HEGS instead of that silly 'losers' stuff aimed at the national side after the Ecuador game. My readers would like you a lot more then.

                                          The Mighty Kubelgog!!! wrote:
                                          [Manchester United] completely changed the way they played to suit [Verón], fucked over paul scholes, then realised too late that scholes was better than veron at what he did.
                                          They didn't change the way they played to suit him though, because as I've already pointed out, they played him in the wrong position (or, if we're blaming him for not adapting, they played him in a position he'd never previously been used in - the Paul Scholes position). That got in the way of his adapting somewhat.

                                          I'd agree with what someone said a long way upthread (page 1 I think) that he'd fit into the current United midfield far more smoothly - at the base alongside Carrick (although I don't think I'd take him over Carrick).

                                          Regarding Sabella, he deserves a lot of credit but Verón is the story in this Copa win, no doubt. Sabella was very unheralded when he was brought into Estudiantes not eight months ago. He's done magnificently with them.

                                          As far as the members of the 2002 national side being roundly hated by the Argentine public, Verón got it a lot worse than most of the rest of them because he was seen as having having one of the worst attitudes as far as thinking it was won before they'd even turned up. Given that the entire team were thinking that way, that one doesn't look great for him, but bear in mind there are many in Argentina who have remained resolutely convinced, for the last decade and a half, that Javier Zanetti is a complete fraud who can't play football to save his life. José Pekerman in 2006 fell very much into the sceptics camp over both players.

                                          Add Javier Pastore to your list of under-30 foreigners playing in Italy. Palermo reckon he's the new Kaká. He himself wants to be the new Riquelme. If he can deal with the pressure, and if the club are able to bring him up sensibly, he could be a lot better than that (Riquelme).

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                                            #96
                                            Juan Sebastian Veron

                                            Don't worry Sam, I don't mind playing the heel anywhere.

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                                              #97
                                              I kind of agree with JV, except for the Manchester United blows bit.

                                              I wish we'd kept Veron. I wish when we sold Beckham we rebuilt the team around Veron. I wish he still played for us now. 43, strolling through matches, still playing every pass with the outside of his boot like a sexy, languid, midfield pirate. He was ten years ahead of his time. Imagine the success Carrick had, but with Veron. Mind-boggling.

                                              I love that Rojo idolises Veron. I love that when I go to Argentina next year I'm going to watch them play (hopefully). I have no idea what I was doing in 2009 that was so important I missed this thread, but better late than never.

                                              JSV 4 LYF.

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                                                #98
                                                Well, I can only say that the last line of Sam's post about Pastore hasn't panned out. He might be the next Kaka when we think about the Kaka who played in MLS. Of course, I say all of this out bitterness that Roma signed Pastore and other than two incredible backheel goals, he's been a piece of junk. But that's mostly been the case since he left Palermo.

                                                About Veron, he returned to South America and rejuvenated Estudiantes who went on to win the Libertadores.

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                                                  #99
                                                  I think Veron and Kaka both underperformed at World Cups.

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                                                    I always liked Veron, Man United association notwithstanding. I especially liked how one-footed he was, made me feel better about my left foot. I reckon I could still pass better than him with my left. Plus untucked shirt and rolled-down socks is guaranteed to get me onside with virtually any player.

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