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    Originally posted by WOM View Post
    It's like Billions in that you feel slightly dirty for enjoying it so much.
    Yeah, I suppose that's a good comparison.

    In each case, all of those people could just quit and be rich for the rest of their lives and never work again or owe anything to anyone. That's my ultimate fantasy and those people have it right there for the taking and they don't.

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      Nope. Because what are they going to do tomorrow?

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        Almost anything they want. Read books. Shovel walks for old people. Visit Greece.

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          That would be impossible for them to comprehend though. The only one of the kids who has so much as a toe outside the bubble they grew up in is Conner, and he's just not very bright.

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            When the show started, it seemed like Shiv and maybe Roman were looking for a way out, but as soon as they saw a remote possibility of getting power, they were back in.

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              The whole 'take the money and run' thing is appealing to salary people like ourselves. Billions / Succession people live in a whole different world. It's not about money as much as power, status, connection, etc.

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                And those are the people that run everything and decide how the economy will work and what gets taught in schools.

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                  Most of them also care deeply about just how much they have, as they believe it to be the only valid way of keeping score.

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                    Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                    Most of them also care deeply about just how much they have, as they believe it to be the only valid way of keeping score.
                    I know people who are not particularly rich who believe that too.

                    Civilization was a mistake.

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                      The "not rich" group of believers is considerably larger in sheer numbers

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                        There probably are a fairly large number of people who just cash out and drop out of the ratrace or society altogether. They just aren't famous.

                        It's probably more common for people like that to spend it all and go broke.



                        Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 29-11-2021, 20:28.

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                          The root of Trumpism is ensuring that there are tens of millions of people "below" one.

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                            Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                            Most of them also care deeply about just how much they have, as they believe it to be the only valid way of keeping score.
                            Which, in turn, contributes to their paranoia. As they believe everyone is envious of them so there's no one they can trust.

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                              Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                              The root of Trumpism is ensuring that there are tens of millions of people "below" one.
                              That's the root of him and his policies, but his popularity is partly driven by the idea that he must be smart because he's so rich (even though he isn't, really). Same with Elon Musk. Of course, the racism and what not helps, but there are lots of other racists who aren't nearly as popular.

                              And there are lots of other wealthy non-racists who aren't particularly obnoxious who don't have a cult. There isn't a cult of Tim Cook, for example, as far as I know.
                              Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 29-11-2021, 21:05.

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                                Nor is there one of George Soros or Jeff Bezos

                                And the Warren Buffett cult is invested exclusively in the long term appreciation of Berkshire Hathaway shares

                                We live in a massively fucked up country

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                                  That reminded me of this:
                                  As I've quoted before. William James wrote to HG Wells about the latter's essay about a guy who was imprisoned for leading a workers strike in New Jersey.

                                  To H. G. Wells.
                                  Chocorua, Sept. 11, 1906.
                                  Dear Mr. Wells,—I’ve read your “Two Studies in Disappointment” in “Harper’s Weekly,” and must thank you from the bottom of my heart. Rem acu tetegisti! Exactly that callousness to abstract justice is the sinister feature and, to me as well as to you, the incomprehensible feature, of our U. S. civilization. How you hit upon it so neatly and singled it out so truly (and talked of it so tactfully!) God only knows: He evidently created you to do such things! I never heard of the MacQueen case before, but I’ve known of plenty of others. When the ordinary American hears of them, instead of the idealist within him beginning to “see red” with the higher indignation, instead of the spirit of English history growing alive in his breast, he begins to pooh-pooh and minimize and tone down the thing, and breed excuses from his general fund of optimism and respect for expediency. “It’s probably right enough”; “Scoundrelly, as you say,” but understandable, “from the point of view of parties interested”—but understandable in onlooking citizens only as a symptom of the moral flabbiness born of the exclusive worship of the bitch-goddess Success. That—with the squalid cash interpretation put on the word success—is our national disease. Hit it hard! Your book must have a great effect. Do you remember the glorious remarks about success in Chesterton’s “Heretics”? You will undoubtedly have written the medicinal book about America. And what good humor! and what tact! Sincerely yours,
                                  Wm. James.


                                  I wish he didn't have to make it gendered like that, but it was the style of the time.

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                                    Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                    I wish he didn't have to make it gendered like that, but it was the style of the time.
                                    Is he not referring to a dog there? When does the more common modern use of the term arise?

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                                      But why does this false idol have to be a "goddess?"

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                                        Greeks and romans? eutyche and laetitia, though I don't know if it's the same kind of success. I suppose it's just what people did nearly 120 years ago. They were also into unironic elaborate moustaches and typhoid. It was a different time!

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                                          Oh, good point. Blame the Greco-Romans.

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                                            We watched Red Notice last night. I agree with the previous assessments on here. It's the kind of film for when you want to watch well made trash that won't tax your brain. Enjoyed it.

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                                              Apparently Netflix's most watched movie ever after just 17 days. Just edged out Birdbox.

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                                                My wife and I saw 'House of Gucci' the other night. It's all surface and no real depth but very enjoyable. Gaga and Driver are a great pairing, though that does mean the film falls pretty flat for the final section when they're apart and consequently it feels about thirty minutes too long.

                                                I thought it was an interesting and successful stylistic decision to basically make it a mob movie, especially as I was unaware of even the basics of the Gucci story in the period. I see that the nods to The Godfather (even down to the colour palette) have been picked up in a lot of articles about the film.

                                                Speaking of which, Pacino is on about 18/10 on the Pacino scale, so quite reserved for him. Jared Leto gives a mesmerisingly awful performance though, I think he's aiming for Sean Penn's excellent turn in Carlito's Way but ends up more like Captain Bertorelli in 'Allo 'Allo.



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                                                  I really want to see it. It sounds very entertaining in an OTT sort of way.

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                                                    Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                                    Oh, good point. Blame the Greco-Romans.
                                                    Something that I find myself wondering, when reading that letter, is when does the word bitch take on its current meaning? when does it stop being the female version of calling a man a dog, and when does it start to mean a whole bunch of behavioural characteristics that are essentially unheard of among dogs?

                                                    Even calling a man a dog is an interesting insult. It's a lot less common than it used to be, and it seems to be the sort of insult that If I were to call you that 150 years ago, you'd be obliged to engage me in fisticuffs. Whereas now, you'd likely say "Well I can't take any credit for that, Tonka is a very wise teacher"

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