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    SB: You can do spoilers on here by using [ spoiler ]

    [spoiler]I really want to know what happened to Oleg[/spoiler]

    Comment


      Thanks, FF

      [spoiler] I was concerned for Oleg. And he's going to be locked up in a US prison; but I think he'll be OK with it now that the information he came for is back in Arkady's hands.

      I was a little disappointed when Oleg's dad asked "What do I tell his mother" that Arkady didn't say "Tell her that he was protecting the President and Union against a counter-revolutionary coup". It would even be true.[/spoiler]

      Comment


        Agreed, SB.

        On a less serious note, I used to worry that when Liz was making out with her targets, they would put their hands on the back of her head and her wig would come off. I bet that would happen in real life.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Femme Folle View Post
          I understand what you're saying, but contextually, the songs were appropriate for those moments. Just be thankful they didn't use "Russians".
          Thematically they weren't wrong, but the trouble with well known songs (which these two undeniably are) is that they bring their own contextual baggage and meanings with them. They can interfere and unduly influence the drama which, for me, was the case here.

          Comment


            But they weren't the main item. I hate eating celery, but I don't mind if it's in potato salad, as long as it's chopped finely and blends in with the other ingredients.

            But, of course, you are entitled to your feelings and opinions. I respect that.

            Comment


              From the excellent L’Équipe Explore series:

              # 1: https://www.lequipe.fr/explore-video...ey-sans-pitie/

              on the insane Barkley Race, the most gruelling race on the planet (out of about 1,200 participants since its inception in 1986, only 15 have crossed the Finish line).


              # 2: https://www.lequipe.fr/explore/hr02-panier-4-points/

              On the "4-point shot" in basket-ball.


              Both in English with French subtitles, except texts in #2.

              Comment


                Just watched the final two Americans, as well. Very sad but appropriate ending. Loved the whole run.

                [spoiler]

                Paige's decision surprised me, but doesn't seem out of character.

                Poor Henry.

                How did Stan get to speak with Henry at the arena? They said they were sitting on him at school.

                What's Stan going to do about his GF?

                [/spoiler]

                Comment


                  Now I have to race through 2.5 seasons before it seeps into the general culture and it becomes impossible to avoid spoilers.

                  Comment


                    Here's what's happening to the real-life 'Paige' and 'Henry' right now...

                    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...tizenship.html

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by WOM View Post
                      Just watched the final two Americans, as well. Very sad but appropriate ending. Loved the whole run.

                      [spoiler]

                      Paige's decision surprised me, but doesn't seem out of character.

                      Poor Henry.

                      How did Stan get to speak with Henry at the arena? They said they were sitting on him at school.

                      What's Stan going to do about his GF?

                      [/spoiler]
                      [spoiler] Re Stan: Wasn't the implication, as he tucked her up in bed, that he continued to trust her? The sequence of her watching the FBI tear the Jennings' house apart was more ambivalent.

                      D'you reckon Paige is just going to wait in the safe house for her new controller from 'Central' to show up? Seems to me she can't do much else, except go work at Cinnabob in Omaha with Saul. [/spoiler]

                      Comment


                        WOM: I know, right? So many questions remain.

                        [spoiler] Paige could end up becoming a counter-spy for the FBI. Or she could write a book about her parents that would land on the NY Times Bestseller list. Or she could get a job in the Russian embassy. I see lots of possibilities for her, if she plays it smart.

                        I agree with AdC about Stan and Renee.

                        [/spoiler]

                        Comment


                          [spoiler]

                          Yeah, see me'n' the missus have been debating this. I'm not sure what Stan thinks of Renee, but L thinks that Renee's long, lingering look across the road at the house being torn apart was plenty of indication that she's (indeed) one of them.

                          Paige...dunno. She was a real contradiction as a character. Maybe she's awaiting her next handler, or maybe she just had nowhere else to go. She knows she doesn't want to go to Russia (and why would she?), but what's left for her 'here' now except Henry? Maybe it's empathy for Henry that made her stay.

                          L thinks that the only really unconvincing thing was Elizabeth's really quick conversion in the last three episodes. She was died-in-the-wool for the entire run, and then suddenly sabotages the mission and kills one of her own? Dunno...

                          I'll miss the show, for sure.

                          [/spoiler]

                          Comment


                            Re: The Americans (maybe we should note what the spoilers are about, so people don't inadvertently click on them.)

                            WOM:

                            [spoiler] Yes, that part did seem a little rushed, but maybe it just came down to how much she really trusted Philip, even if she didn't realize it earlier. As for Paige's decision, I think she stayed behind for Henry's sake. And possibly because she didn't want to live in Russia, as you said.

                            I will definitely miss that show, and especially Philip and Oleg. [/spoiler]
                            Last edited by Femme Folle; 03-06-2018, 17:42.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Ginger Yellow View Post
                              Now I have to race through 2.5 seasons before it seeps into the general culture and it becomes impossible to avoid spoilers.
                              Better get crackin'.

                              Comment


                                This isn't really 'watching', but I am currently going through the radio series called "Cabin Pressure". Roger Allam, Stephanie Cole and Benedict Cumberbatch all doing a slightly less camp "The High Life", written by John Finnemore (also in it).

                                V. funny.

                                Comment


                                  More Americans

                                  [spoiler] I assumed that Paige felt too American, and wanted to stay with Henry. And was willing to try to lie her way out with the FBI - "Yes, I discovered my parents were spies, but what was I meant to do?" I'm trying to remember if there's anything in the garage scene that gave her away?

                                  But even so, it was the 80s - you could disappear much easier back then before we all had digital identities.

                                  I don't think Elizabeth's conversion was a problem. Her loyalty was to the Soviet state, not to Margo Martindale. Once she realised that the Center and Gorbachev were in conflict, it's not that big a stretch for her to come down against the Center.
                                  [/spoiler]

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                    [spoiler]

                                    Yeah, see me'n' the missus have been debating this. I'm not sure what Stan thinks of Renee, but L thinks that Renee's long, lingering look across the road at the house being torn apart was plenty of indication that she's (indeed) one of them.

                                    Paige...dunno. She was a real contradiction as a character. Maybe she's awaiting her next handler, or maybe she just had nowhere else to go. She knows she doesn't want to go to Russia (and why would she?), but what's left for her 'here' now except Henry? Maybe it's empathy for Henry that made her stay.

                                    L thinks that the only really unconvincing thing was Elizabeth's really quick conversion in the last three episodes. She was died-in-the-wool for the entire run, and then suddenly sabotages the mission and kills one of her own? Dunno...

                                    I'll miss the show, for sure.

                                    [/spoiler]
                                    [spoiler] I bought Elizabeth's reaction. She's absolutely loyal to the USSR and she's been betrayed by anti-government forces. Unlike Margo Martindale, who's worldview is frozen in Stalingard, like Gorbachev, Elizabeth believes the Soviet Union can, and must, change. (what SB said basically) [/spoiler]
                                    Last edited by Amor de Cosmos; 03-06-2018, 18:18.

                                    Comment


                                      Catching up on TV programmes shown since last weekend as I was away for a few days and this week’s Have I Got News For You is pretty good:

                                      https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-55-episode-9#

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by Gerontophile View Post
                                        This isn't really 'watching', but I am currently going through the radio series called "Cabin Pressure". Roger Allam, Stephanie Cole and Benedict Cumberbatch all doing a slightly less camp "The High Life", written by John Finnemore (also in it).

                                        V. funny.
                                        It took a while for me to get into it, but once I did, I realised that it's been one of the best things on radio this decade.

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
                                          [spoiler] I bought Elizabeth's reaction. She's absolutely loyal to the USSR and she's been betrayed by anti-government forces. Unlike Margo Martindale, who's worldview is frozen in Stalingard, like Gorbachev, Elizabeth believes the Soviet Union can, and must, change. (what SB said basically) [/spoiler]
                                          I've been in a bit of a daze since last Thursday; almost feeling bereaved since the Americans ended. Some thoughts...

                                          [spoiler]
                                          Elizabeth wasn't much of Gorby fan either; she snapped at Philip's enthusiasm for Pizza Hut in Moscow recall. He issue was that firstly, she was being asked to stitch up and kill a fellow comrade, who she found to be a good man and doing nothing disloyal. She's hot for the procedures, and the coup-plotters were doing so without the authority of the Party, and that was the dealbreaker for her. You can't have people freelancing and giving their own interpretation of morality (that's what she couldn't tolerate in Philip) so Claudia's plotting was a similar verison of that.

                                          Her own conflict came from not killing Jackson, Senator Nunn's intern; unlike Slaine, she did think it too many and the killing of Sofia and Gennadi was a final straw for her. It's noticeable that she's had more 'ethically challenging' kills to make more recently (the old woman in the Mail Robot factory, the old woman forced to kill Russians by Germans in the war, Lisa the Northrop employee) and the juxtaposition of having to kill the woman she didn't have to and didn't want to finally did for her.

                                          As for Paige, I wonder if part of it was realising that he rparents were monsters. They were at pains to constantly stress how they never did anything bad, but her finding out that Elizabeth used sex regulalry, and from her that her Dad did too was a blow. Then, when Stan tells her in the garage about all the people who've died, I think it starts to sink in. That, and how they can walk away from Henry. She can't speak to him; it's too grim. They can, and act as if nothing was happening. As a parent, I felt that from their side, but as a kid, you'd be thinking that these people are somehting else.

                                          I liked Matthew Rhys's comment that Paige changes her name to Stormy Daniels. [/spoiler]

                                          Comment


                                            The first part of Patrick Melrose did not impress me that much. Acting, yes, great, but plot and characterization were so-so. Maybe it improves in the second part?

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                              The first part of Patrick Melrose did not impress me that much. Acting, yes, great, but plot and characterization were so-so. Maybe it improves in the second part?
                                              I didn't make it through the first episode. I didn't find it entertaining to watch a junkie trying to score and falling down all over the place--and it did nothing to convince me that it was more than that. I saw a small snippet of Sunday's episode and thought that maybe I should give it another try. Maybe I'll either skip the first episode or fast forward through most of it. I really wanted to like it.

                                              Comment


                                                It gets better. Quite a lot better TBH. Sometimes it's not an easy watch with a fair few (deliberately) cringeworthy moments, but we're finding it pretty compelling.

                                                I didn't find it entertaining to watch a junkie trying to score and falling down all over the place--and it did nothing to convince me that it was more than that.

                                                I'd agree E01 doesn't give you more than that, but it's necessary as character set-up. E02 deals with a pivotal incident in his childhood, Cumberbatch isn't on screen. E03 returns to him as a, newly clean and trying hard to stay that way, adult. It includes a devastating portrayal of Princess Margaret. The corrosive and toxic attitudes of British upper and upper middle-class life are the central theme to this point, embodied mainly by Patrick's utterly repellent Father.

                                                Comment


                                                  OK, you've convinced me. I'll give it another shot.

                                                  Comment


                                                    So will I.

                                                    Comment

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