Current Watching

[Amor de Cosmos]

Four episodes into Dead to Me. I've met the toxic mother-in-law but there's still no indication of if she, or anyone else, is looking after the kids when Jen and Judy are driving around in the dark.

I think she takes them to live with her at some point. But can't remember when, it has to be a year or so since I saw it.

[Balderdasha]

Dead to Me spoilers.

Episode 5, toxic mother-in-law looks after kids while mum goes on a grief retreat to drink and attempt to shag. Episode 6, we discover that oldest son has nicked a gun from granny and is carrying out around loaded in his backpack to protect himself during drug deals. At least the show is now acknowledging that the kids have been chronically neglected for quite some time.

[RobW]

I notice that the PBS broadcast of Ken Burns Country Music is way longer than that broadcast by the BBC (at least twice as long per episode). Meant that the final episode focused mostly on Willie Nelson, with no mention of Garth Brooks.

Started watching This Way Up tonight, finally.

[WOM]

Meant that the final episode focused mostly on Willie Nelson, with no mention of Garth Brooks.

And you know...I'm okay with that.

[Benjm]

I notice that the PBS broadcast of Ken Burns Country Music is way longer than that broadcast by the BBC (at least twice as long per episode). Meant that the final episode focused mostly on Willie Nelson, with no mention of Garth Brooks.

It was the same for the Vietnam series too.

I've enjoyed the Country Music series. It's not my favourite genre but the series is a good grounding in the history of the music and why its greats are considered to be so. Johnny Cash comes across very well, as an artist and as a person, but the particular appeal of most of the big names is effectively conveyed. The yodelling wasn't much less odd for being placed in context though.

[Hot Pepsi]

The Vietnam series finished with a an episode on Willie Nelson? Interesting choice.

[Benjm]

The Vietnam series finished with a an episode on Willie Nelson? Interesting choice.

Ha, perhaps that quote could have been cut for clarity.

No, the Vietnam series finished with an episode about Captain & Tennille, as you'd expect.

[Hot Pepsi]

I see. That makes more sense.

[Ginger Yellow]

Fuck me, they really bollocksed up the ending to The Man In The High Castle.

[Wouter D]

Still better than the finale of Friends. At least things happened.

[hobbes]

Just watched the new Star Wars movie. Thankfully it almost completely ignored Rian Johnson's feeble effort and pitched a frenetic, fun, cheesily emotion roller coaster.
Not bad at all.

[WOM]

Just watched the new Star Wars movie. Thankfully it almost completely ignored Rian Johnson's feeble effort and pitched a frenetic, fun, cheesily emotion roller coaster.
Not bad at all.

That's good. The Cats reviews have been........soft.

[Gangster Octopus]

Aye, even the Beeb only gave it two out of five.

[Hot Pepsi]

Just watched the new Star Wars movie. Thankfully it almost completely ignored Rian Johnson's feeble effort and pitched a frenetic, fun, cheesily emotion roller coaster.
Not bad at all.

I'm going tonight.
That's disappointing.
Contrary to popular fanboy opinion, Rian Johnson's film was the best Star Wars film except maybe Empire Strikes Back. It had emotional weight and tried to do something different rather than just redo the plot of the earlier films. It imagined the complete arc of Luke's character and recognized that the Jedi have mostly just been making things worse for the past century or so. But I suspect now we'll find out that Rey and Ren are twins or something and it will all tie together neatly. That's fine, but not as interesting as trying something new.

[Benjm]

Aye, even the Beeb only gave it two out of five.

One out of five in the Graun, but Peter Bradshaw rather cedes the moral high ground by delivering his kicking in verse.

[Hot Pepsi]

I saw Cats on Broadway about 30 years ago. Is it worse than that or is it just that critics never really liked that either, despite its massive popularity?

[hobbes]

I'm going tonight.
That's disappointing.
Contrary to popular fanboy opinion, Rian Johnson's film was the best Star Wars film except maybe Empire Strikes Back. It had emotional weight and tried to do something different rather than just redo the plot of the earlier films. It imagined the complete arc of Luke's character and recognized that the Jedi have mostly just been making things worse for the past century or so. But I suspect now we'll find out that Rey and Ren are twins or something and it will all tie together neatly. That's fine, but not as interesting as trying something new.

Nah man. The bulk of the film was a ludicrous space version of the OJ Simpson car chase. And (forgive the spoilers)


Why the F did they have bombers dropping ordinance from above in zero G?


It had a couple of OK scenes, mainly with Rey, but the rest made Phantom Menace look like a well plotted, structurally sound movie.

[WOM]

I saw Cats on Broadway about 30 years ago. Is it worse than that or is it just that critics never really liked that either, despite its massive popularity?

It's currently at 15% on Rotten Tomatoes, which is a train wreck in anyone's book. And it cost $95 million to make. I think the problem is that 'song and dance' will sustain a play for two hours, but it won't carry a movie. A movie needs a strong plot and narrative, and it apparently lacks that. I don't suspect I'll be going to see it. I didn't like the play when I saw it, yeah, about thirty years ago too.

[Hot Pepsi]

Nah man. The bulk of the film was a ludicrous space version of the OJ Simpson car chase. And (forgive the spoilers)


Why the F did they have bombers dropping ordinance from above in zero G?


It had a couple of OK scenes, mainly with Rey, but the rest made Phantom Menace look like a well plotted, structurally sound movie.

So much wrongness.

I liked the overall story. It's a bit disjointed, just as the previous Star Wars films were in that there are multiple adventures happening simultaneously, but it all ties together in the end.

Comparing it to the OJ chase is not the insult you might imagine. Millions of people were riveted to that, as you can recall. The slow motion doom for the Alliance/Rebels is an appropriate metaphor for our times and it was Star Trek-esque in a good way. It also set up Laura Dern's heroic moment as well as the last stand on the red salt planet. I didn't entirely understand how Fin and whatsername could just slip in and out of there to go get Benicio Del Toro, however, but something about tracking through hyperspace that made sense at the time.

The Phantom Menace's problem wasn't its plotting, but The Last Jedi is 100x better than The Phantom Menance if for no other reason than it was directed by a competent film director. Lucas is a good producer and "vision guy," but he cannot direct actors to save his life. Harrison Ford basically says that in the latest documentary on the making of Star Wars. He puts it more politely, however.


Presumably, the ship they're bombing creates some gravity. It is huge, after all. And it has artificial gravity on board.* And the way she knocks the control down to catch it shows that. Besides, they never said the bombs were just "dropping." The bombers could have been pushing them out. It wouldn't take much force to make them drop like bombs on earth.

For the same reason airplane bombers are the way they are IRL, it makes sense to push the bombs out of the "bottom" of the ship in a trajectory perpendicular to the direction the ship/plane is travelling. Otherwise, you have to "dive bomb" and potentially crash the plane/ship, or shoot it out the back as you ascend, but that would make it harder to target. This way you just deliver the bombs arcross the target and keep moving. Even if some of them miss, you maximize the chance of hitting what you're trying to hit.

Besides, it was supposed to resemble a WW2 bombing run. If you're going to question why they had bombers, you could question why they have manned military spaceships at all. There may be some fantasy-science explanation for how they are harder to defend against than droid-run ships or remotely piloted drones, but the reality is that it's just more exciting that way and it's a series primarily for children.

*Star Wars never really addresses artificial gravity/antigravity, but the technology seems to be everywhere. Even when a ship is falling apart, nobody is floating around. (Same in Star Trek, btw)
That's how they can have speeder bikes, etc, and ships that just take off without any massive downward thrust and, I suppose, it's connected to how they can do FTL so easily.

One major thing I love about The Expanse is that the lack of gravity in space affects just about everything. There is no reliance on deus ex machina artificial gravity. Of course, it's a lot easier to do that in a book or a show with CGI, than it was to do that on TV or films in the 60s or 70s.

[hobbes]

Ye gods, where to begin...

I liked the overall story. It's a bit disjointed, just as the previous Star Wars films were in that there are multiple adventures happening simultaneously, but it all ties together in the end.

Yeah but the main side one was the ridiculous casino planet one, put there to shoehorn some terribly clunky "rich peeeple is baaad maaan" shite that was far more classily done in Solo.

Comparing it to the OJ chase is not the insult you might imagine. Millions of people were riveted to that, as you can recall.

Only because it was so bloody silly. It wasn't high drama, it was farce.

The slow motion doom for the Alliance/Rebels is an appropriate metaphor for our times and it was Star Trek-esque in a good way. It also set up Laura Dern's heroic moment as well as the last stand on the red salt planet.

Literally anything could have got the plot there without being so dumb.

I mean honestly as I was watching it all I could think was "why don't they hyperspace some of the Imperial destroyers in front of the rebel carrier? Or a few in a net for them to run into? These guys conquered star systems, surely a basic pincer movement isn't beyond them.

The Phantom Menace's problem wasn't its plotting,

It really was. 2 hours of discussion about trade negotiations wrapped around 15 minutes of pod race fun and some bullshit about micky chlorians or somesuch, trying to turn silly woo into medicine. The Force works best if you don't try to explain it.

but The Last Jedi is 100x better than The Phantom Menance if for no other reason than it was directed by a competent film director.

The direction was fine. It was the story that was mouldier than a sock full of Camembert left on a radiator.

Lucas is a good producer and "vision guy," but he cannot direct actors to save his life. Harrison Ford basically says that in the latest documentary on the making of Star Wars. He puts it more politely, however.

Well we agree on that, at least.

Presumably, the ship they're bombing creates some gravity. It is huge, after all.

Not THAT huge.

And it has artificial gravity on board.* And the way she knocks the control down to catch it shows that. Besides, they never said the bombs were just "dropping." The bombers could have been pushing them out. It wouldn't take much force to make them drop like bombs on earth.

And it would be much easier just to fire them as missiles from fast moving, manoeuvrable, difficult to shoot down ships like, say X Wings or Y Wings for example.

Besides, it was supposed to resemble a WW2 bombing run.

Exactly. And that's what's so rubbish. Trying to hammer a square idea into a round hatch.

If you're going to question why they had bombers, you could question why they have manned military spaceships at all.

Thats a non sequitur.

*Star Wars never really addresses artificial gravity/antigravity, but the technology seems to be everywhere. Even when a ship is falling apart, nobody is floating around. (Same in Star Trek, btw)
That's how they can have speeder bikes, etc, and ships that just take off without any massive downward thrust and, I suppose, it's connected to how they can do FTL so easily.

Yes but that's all irrelevant. the whole purpose was to shoehorn in a woefully inappropriate visual throwback to WW2 movies. It was lazy and stupid and betrayed a terrible lack of imagination and understanding of the universe.
At least Lucas' idiotic follies (AT-ATs etc.) were fun and interesting.

That stupid bombing run, the stupid chase and the stupid casino planet side show make up well over half the movie. The more thoughtful bits just get lost in the mush.

As you said earlier, you're right it's a kid's film. That's why Phantom Menace failed. Because it's boring. That's why Last Jedi failed. Because it's boring.
We're back to the whole making James Bond more like Jason Bourne. It's pointless, destructive and insulting to both franchises.
Let Star Wars be Star Wars. JJ Abrams gets that, which is why his 2 films were so much better than Rian Johnson's effort.
You wanna do a thoughtful sci fi film? Go do one. Just don't call it Star Wars.

[Wouter D]

Fuck, can we leave the Star Wars spoilers in a dedicated thread or something? Trying to avoid those for another fortnight or so.

[hobbes]

These aren't for the current film. They're for the last one.

[Wouter D]

Ah, cool. I'm not reading the posts in much detail, for obvious reasons. For the previous film, spoiler away!

[Hot Pepsi]

Ye gods, where to begin...



Yeah but the main side one was the ridiculous casino planet one, put there to shoehorn some terribly clunky "rich peeeple is baaad maaan" shite that was far more classily done in Solo.

Rich people are bad. The point was to show that part of the Star Wars universe. That there are a whole lot of people complicit in what's going on, not just the obvious baddies and thinly disguised Nazi analogs.

Only because it was so bloody silly. It wasn't high drama, it was farce.

Nothing farcial about it at the time. People were really worried we'd see a suicide on the freeway.

Literally anything could have got the plot there without being so dumb.

I mean honestly as I was watching it all I could think was "why don't they hyperspace some of the Imperial destroyers in front of the rebel carrier? Or a few in a net for them to run into? These guys conquered star systems, surely a basic pincer movement isn't beyond them.

You just don't get hyperspace culture. If they'd jumped in front of them, they'd have been more vulnerable to counter attack. Why bother with that when they could just run them down gradually which they did. They lost a big ship because of Laura Dern's selfless act, but the resistance ended up with about 30 people left. It was a massive victory for the First Order.

It does raise the question of why there aren't more hyperspace weapons/kamakaze pilots. It seems remarkably effective.

It really was. 2 hours of discussion about trade negotiations wrapped around 15 minutes of pod race fun and some bullshit about micky chlorians or somesuch, trying to turn silly woo into medicine. The Force works best if you don't try to explain it.

The direction was fine. It was the story that was mouldier than a sock full of Camembert left on a radiator.

The basic story outline would have been fine in the hands of a better director. Besides the much-maligned "trade negotiations" are barely mentioned, really. It's not "two hours of discussion." I actually wished they'd gotten more into the weeds with that - Game of Thrones style - because the whole story of the prequels is supposed to be about how a once peaceful and balanced republic degenerated into tyrrany. Besides, The Phatom Menace had Darth Maul so it wasn't total loss.

And it would be much easier just to fire them as missiles from fast moving, manoeuvrable, difficult to shoot down ships like, say X Wings or Y Wings for example.

Same reason why they don't do it that way in real life. Bombers are slow and heavy, but can carry a lot more ordinants than a maneuverable fighter. They needed more volume. Apparently, the Empire/First Order learned from their mistake with the Death Star and it's wamprat-sized exhaust port.

Thats a non sequitur.

No it isn't. They have sentient droids. There's no clear reason why they need organic, easy to kill people operating those space ships. But since we have to accept that we do for reasons that aren't clear, we might as well accept that there's gravity around Star Destroyers for reasons that aren't clear. It's better to just accept some of these things on their face. The greatness of Star Wars is that the design and sound is so well-done that it all feels very reall even though most of the scifi technology bits aren't really explained.

Yes but that's all irrelevant. the whole purpose was to shoehorn in a woefully inappropriate visual throwback to WW2 movies. It was lazy and stupid and betrayed a terrible lack of imagination and understanding of the universe.

No it isn't. The whole thing is an homage to westerns, samurai movies, fairytales and a few other things. The point was that it was a phyyric victory because Po is a hothead. The action is a lot easier to understand if it follows rules the audience already understands. If they'd stopped to explain how artificial gravity works in the Star Wars universe - which is what more "grown-up" sci-fi would do - you'd probably say it was boring and you'd might be right.

As you said earlier, you're right it's a kid's film. That's why Phantom Menace failed. Because it's boring. That's why Last Jedi failed. Because it's boring.
We're back to the whole making James Bond more like Jason Bourne. It's pointless, destructive and insulting to both franchises.
Let Star Wars be Star Wars. JJ Abrams gets that, which is why his 2 films were so much better than Rian Johnson's effort.
You wanna do a thoughtful sci fi film? Go do one. Just don't call it Star Wars.

Bored is a subjective state. If you were bored, that's unfortunate for you, but I wasn't bored. Boring is not a characteristic of something that can be objectively assigned to something.

I didn't think The Phantom Menace was boring, really. But Jar Jar was really annoying and possibly racist, the CGI isn't quite good enough and the little kid's performance is terrible. The story didn't really work in the sense of "I understand what is at stake for these characters" but I don't think the fundamental plot was the problem if it had been explained and executed a bit differently. All of those things took me out of it, so to speak. But it wasn't boring in the sense that I wanted it to hurry up and get to the good stuff. I wanted it to just be a better version of what it was. But I liked it a lot better than the one that came after it, certainly. Because it has Darth Maul.

The Last Jedi is not boring either. I've seen it three times. I liked the characters and the horsecat things on the casino planet - although that definitely was the weakest part and should have been much shorter - and especially liked all the Rey and Luke stuff. I haven't read all the Star Wars novels and seen all the cartoons like the hardcore nerds have, but I know about religion and Luke's character arc and his exhaustion with the whole Jedi thing made perfect sense from that perspective. Emo Vader was also a great innovation, within the overall story, with his whole "kill the past" thing. That makes way more sense for both our times and his character development within the story than if he'd stayed loyal to Snoke or the First Order. Somebody that powerful wouldn't actually want to be in charge of all those assholes in uniform or listen to a "master." He's just pure anger/choatic evil. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

It is for kids but it can be more than that with some imagination and willingness to try something new.

It would be much more interesting if Rey's power is the result of her character and personal development and not just a genetic trait. It's fine if Snoke turns out to just be another powerful bad guy like a million bad guys corrupted by power before and after him rather than a personifcation of evil itself. Likewise, it's better if Ren is just a very angry young man who just so happens to have a lot of power rather than somebody who is "destined" to rule the universe of some shit. All this has happened before and will happen again. That would all make a lot more sense for our postmodern era than another "we must fulfill the prophecy!!!" or "It is my DESTINY!" or some other Joseph Campbell fantasy trope taken from the the first trilogy or 10,000 other fantasy stories. But I suspect that's where it's headed. That's fine, but it's not as interesting as it could be.

And I don't agree with that take on James Bond either. The Daniel Craig James Bonds, especially Skyfall, are the best ones. Despite all the parkour and gadgets and what not, he's a real person in those films. A sociopath and a misogynist, perhaps, but grounded in reality. The old campy ones were fine for their time, but we got over 20 of those already. Time to try something a bit more grounded with actual character development.

[Lang Spoon]

Attack of the Clones seemed to
be almost all about Twade Fedawation racist trope/Senate procedural CSpan in space machinations, when it wasn't about the world's worst honeymoon or Christopher Lee reprising his Sauran act pointlessly. Or fuckin Mario Bros Yoda lepping around.