The West Wing

[ursus arctos]

The politics of just about any USian network show are going to be awful by definition

[DCI Harry Batt]

Yeah totes. I'm always a bit taken aback by criticism of TWW on the grounds of its politics, I suppose. It's like a given, for me.

[hobbes]

All you need to know about The West Wing and why nobody should watch it is that it was the brainchild of someone who recently said this and apparently genuinely believes it:

Well that's a fairly dumb argument. You may as well say you shouldn't look at Picasso's art because he was an arsehole.
American exceptionalism is pretty much par for the course (as is British exceptionalism of course) so the fact it creeps into their artistic output is hardly a huge gotcha.

[Snake Plissken]

This guest has my biscuit and location

For postings by Guest accounts, it always does display the biscuit and location of the user currently looking at it. So we all see our individual biscuit and location in that field.

TWW: I got into this and really enjoyed it, but then left it at the end of season 4 for a while vowing to go back sometime soon. That was... seven years ago. For me it was less about the politics and more about the characters, who I really liked. The occasional grandstanding irked - a side character would be introduced purely to have a regular character rip them a new one (a radio show host and the Bible springs to mind) but at the end of the day, I liked spending time with Martin Sheen, Alison Janney and Robert Schiff.

[S. aureus]

The "guests" are a mirror into our very souls...

[DCI Harry Batt]

For postings by Guest accounts, it always does display the biscuit and location of the user currently looking at it. So we all see our individual biscuit and location in that field.

Aha. I was wondering if it had something to do with my biscuit not really being mine. And not being a biscuit. But that makes more sense.

[Bored Of Education]

Well, I finished it in the end. Yes, the politics are terribly centrist but that's the Democrats, I suppose. However, pulling in Republican characters such as Ainsley Hoyes, Joe Quincy and Arnie Vinnick to show bipartisanship added to the centrism. I actually quite like them having Matthew Perry on although I am not sure whether it was an intentional gag on Josh being TWW's Chandler. I agree that, around Series 4/5, it all went off a cliff in a lot of ways. I spent a lot of time shouting, "....but the Secret Service wouldn't let you do that!". Agreed that the characters they brought in weren't as multi-dimensional and interesting as the originals mostly. I did think that Vinnick was not only an interesting character but also that Alda played him very well. I actually only predicted the end the wrong way around in that I thought Vinnick would win and have Santos as VP. All in all, I am glad that I persevered though. For all its faults, it had some great characters that you wanted to spend a lot of time with and see how they ended up. I think that, for some reason I can't put my finger on, it seemed to have aged better than the Sopranos (although that is far better show). Perhaps because so much of it was in one location. I do wonder if they were intending to have a Series 8 or was 7 always going the last (before it was made, obviously).

[G-Man]

I don't think The Sopranos has aged at all, other than cultural references to its time.

[Lang Spoon]

The sopranos is absolutely awful with black characters and storylines. But apart from that, unless you are the kind of person who gets taken out of the moment by CRT TVs, flip mobile phones and terrible web design on whatever AJ happens to be browsing, it doesn't seem dated at all. The West Wing seems a ridiculous period piece, on top of all the centrist wank wish fulfilment. Like ER but worse in its heavy exposition, earnest yet "snappy" dialogue, creaky network drama tropes trying to be High Falutin. It's the kind of thing the Sopranos and Six Feet Under helped bury.

[hobbes]

I actually only predicted the end the wrong way around in that I thought Vinnick would win and have Santos as VP.

Vinick was supposed to win apparently. But shortly before filming the last bit, John Spencer (Leo McGarry) died so they rewrote the ending.

[Bored Of Education]

Ah, really? Cheers for that.

The sopranos is absolutely awful with black characters and storylines. But apart from that, unless you are the kind of person who gets taken out of the moment by CRT TVs, flip mobile phones and terrible web design on whatever AJ happens to be browsing, it doesn't seem dated at all.

Exactly that actually. It seemed to be more part of The Sopranos than West Wing. Like I say, it may have had something to do with the more outdoor locations and, in thinking about it, the clothes, perhaps.

[Lang Spoon]

Lots of baggy suits esp in early seasons of Sopranos. Doesn't take me out the story though, any more than polyester ruins 70s American cinema for me.

[G-Man]

Well, a show set in as particular age will reflect the fashions of that age. Surely we'd not call a period drama dated for its costumes reflecting the eras in which it is set. I would say that a show is dated when it has humour or reflects mores that have, beyond a function of narrative, aged poorly. So Fawlty Towers is dated not so much for the big shirt collars, but for the ethnic stereotypes and racist jokes it peddled.

[Lang Spoon]

Not so much dated as written by a horrible misanthropic proto gammon bastard (with a LibDem twist!) like John Cleese.

[Bored Of Education]

Lots of baggy suits esp in early seasons of Sopranos. Doesn't take me out the story though, any more than polyester ruins 70s American cinema for me.

Don't get me wrong, the Sopranos is so magnificent that nothing could take me out of the story. It was only in retrospect when talking about whether the West Wing had dated that I considered The Sopranos as well as its almost identical contemporary. Of course, the other thing with the Sopranos is that the characters didn't exactly have their fingers on the pulse as far as fashions were concerned anyway.

[Belhaven]

Well, I finished it in the end.

If I got this right, it took you eleven years to watch the whole thing, which is fours years longer than the series actually run. I watched the West Wing in a similar fashion, starting after it had finished. It took me a mere eight years to get through it.

It obviously had way too many episodes.

[Bored Of Education]

There be something in that although the changes in technology - from live TV to videotapes to DVD to streaming - as well as circumstances may have had something to do with it. Mrs Bored was very much put off continuing it for a while but once we got into the DVDs and then later the streaming, we really binge watched it. Indeed, it was one of those where we wanted to see the end but were fairly sad that we were getting to the end. In the end, like.

Funnily enough, in discussions we have had on here, I have had to look up characters from the first part of the story but, there again, as you mention, I did start watching it 11 years ago.

[Bored Of Education]

Actually, from the opening post, I have a feeling we must have watched some of the first couple of series live which would have put it over 20 years ago.