Star Wars Trailer!

[Bruno]

ESB is good as long as you avoid thinking about how terrible the Empire is at striking back. The Hoth invasion is such an incredibly botched job. You can't fly some ships in to bomb their fort? Or just torpedo it from space? You need to land those walkers and give them all the time in the world to escape. Vader has to kill the general who came out of hyperspace too close to the planet. That's on you Vader, but it's not like surprise is your chief weapon anyway, you're going to come at them like Sir Lancelot in the Holy Grail. You apparently can't surveil the planet from space even though Google Earth can do that, you have to send drones that can survive super-conspicuous meteor crash landings very close to the fort. (Not for the first or last time, randomly landing somewhere on a huge planet somehow always gets you within yards of the place you need to be.)

How does Boba Fett know that the Millennium Falcon is a) there and b) will try to escape with the trash? How does Han Solo know the trash jettisoning schedule? The escape from the Cloud City, also unbelievable. Vader thought a storm trooper detachment of six would be plenty. Etc. etc. Still it's a fun movie. "I love you." "I know." Epic.

But yeah, nostalgia. We were kids and we had the action figures, which did actually make you feel more connected to the characters. That's why comic book superhero movies are such a thing I suppose, though I don't know how the younger audiences relate to them. Eps. 7-9 needed way more character development to approach how much we were invested in the original cast.

[Patrick Thistle]

I remember reading someone had said Guardians of the Galaxy was this generation's Star Wars. I think the 4 "cosmic" Marvel films are the closest thing to fun space action films this past decade. Other big sci-fi films tend to have been serious and mumbley. The only problem for the Cosmic films has been how much they have been hooked into the Marvel mega-arc, so they haven't been able to develop stories in any direction. (That may have been a benefit as well, of course.)

I have a very soft spot for Return of the Jedi and really don't think the Ewoks are as terrible as people make out. My Grandma loved them too!

[Bored Of Education]

This one ;

Very good.

[Hot Pepsi]

There’s been a lot of good non-movie Star Wars content since the 80s to keep the hardcore fans interested and attract kids to the franchise. Occasional films aren’t really the best way to tell a sprawling epic like this anyway. That’s why Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica were on TV.

Return of the Jedi isn’t bad. Certainly, at age 10, I loved it and felt it was a very satisfying conclusion to the first two. It’s hard to overstate how important that was to me and a
lot of kids then. It’s burned in my brain now. I get emotional every time I hear the music or watch certain scenes.

But even accepting that many aspects of it aren’t great, it still looked and sounded way better than any other sci-fi available at the time or for years to come. There were lots of attempts around that time to replicate Star Wars’ success with a fantasy or space adventure, and some of that stuff was alright and did ok commercially, but it just didn’t have the magic that the Star Wars series has. I’ve rewatched the 80s Star Trek films. They don’t hold up as well as Return of the Jedi, let alone Empire Strikes Back.

Lucas and his people built a world that lots of fans want to explore and lots of creators want to be part of. I suppose only Tolkien, JK Rowling and Roddenberry have been able to do that nearly as well. I wouldn’t put Game of Thrones in that category. It’s popular and perhaps compelling, but I don’t think it’s so beloved. Marvel and DC have loads of enduring popular characters, but neither of them have built a complete universe as well as Star Wars.

[Hot Pepsi]

How does Boba Fett know that the Millennium Falcon is a) there and b) will try to escape with the trash? How does Han Solo know the trash jettisoning schedule? The escape from the Cloud City, also unbelievable. Vader thought a storm trooper detachment of six would be plenty. Etc. etc. Still it's a fun movie. "I love you." "I know." Epic.

They always dump their trash before they go into hyperspace. Han was once part of the imperial navy. He knows their protocol. And Boba Fett knows what Han knows and spotted the Falcon because he knew where to look. Besides, he had a deal with Vader to set up the plan to lure in Luke. So he just needed to follow them.

Vader could only bring a few guys with him to Bespin or Han, Leia and Chewbacca would have noticed a big imperial ship already parked there and not come to Bespin at all. Not sure where else they’d have gone, but not there, which would prevent Vader from setting his trap.

I thought they were able to escape because Lando’s people were able to delay the Imperials just enough to facilitate the escape.

But Vader didn’t really care if Leia etc escaped. He was just trying to create enough of a problem for them so Luke would show up, which he did. He paid Boba Fett etc because those guys were already tracking Han to collect money from Jabba the Hutt.

He didn’t even seem to care that Luke got away. He made his point during their duel. He’s not trying to capture Luke. He’s trying to seduce him to the dark side.

[Bored Of Education]

I was under the impression (possibly from this thread but, unfortunately, I haven't got the time to go back over it) that there was going to be a Lando-centred film stand-alone coming out. Indeed, in thinking about it, perhaps the "Do you want some Lando in you" scene was a taster for that.

[Patrick Thistle]

I was 7 when I saw Return of the Jedi. It was the first film I saw having returned from Africa and as a family we saw it 3 times at the cinema. I loved it, mainly because it gave me some respite from horrible, confusing school and trying to integrate into a culture I was clueless about. Setting aside my emotional attachment to the film, and how important it was to me psychologically, yes it has issues. But whenever I hear someone sneering about Ewoks I just want to tell them to fuck off.

The speeder bike chase in ROTJ is the best action sequence in all 9 films. They've tried to copy it with pod racers, coruscant, and random bits in the new films and the start of Solo. They've never matched it.

[Hot Pepsi]

I haven’t read that, but it is a possibility. There were supposed to be more films in the Solo series and Lando would have been in those, but it’s doubtful that those will happen. Solo underperformed the studio’s hopes. Apparently, the next film series will be about Obi-Wan with Ewen MacGregor but I don’t see how that would work. The story of his life with Anakin has already been told in the prequels and The Clone Wars series. MacGregor is too old to play a young Kenobi. Perhaps he has adventures while in the 20 years he was covertly looking after Luke on Tatooine.

They could do a one-off on the Battle of Jakoo and Rey’s parents.

But they are running out of options for stories that would be original but connected to the existing stories.

They could also do something on the Old Republic, hundreds or thousands of years before the prequels. That was covered in the video game Knights of the Old Republic and some other non-film sources.

I don’t know how they can do something about the “near future” post First Order if the actors won’t do it.

And I don’t know what kind of story they could do. If they set up another epic battle between good and evil for the fate of the whole galaxy, it would feel a lot like the original trilogy and the most recent trilogy. But anything that wasn’t about the fate of the galaxy wouldn’t feel BIG enough.

The Mandalorian is like a western, as is Rebels. In both of them, the main characters move about righting wrongs and surviving and along the way, we learn more about the overall situation in the galaxy as well as meet various local cultures. That’s the same formula as Star Trek and Firefly.

That’s probably the way forward for now.

Almost all of the films and the TV shows so far have mostly been about the outer rim planets. They could do a TV series about life on Cosucant which, according to Star Wars canonical info, has a trillion sentient beings, and the other urbanized planets. The Sopranos in space.

Another idea for an epic film series might be to do something in “the future” where some huge change or calamity has come to the galaxy. Like somehow hyperspace travel has become a lot more difficult (I read another sci-fi story, the title escapes me, where that happens) and/or a huge number of sentient beings are forced to migrate. Sort of like Battlestar Galactica or The Expanse. Still, that might be better as a TV series.

Or maybe do one where Rey becomes so powerful that she projects herself through time and space and accidentally lands in a US college town in the 1970s. But the force doesn’t work well there, so she has to figure out how to get home with the help of the diverse group of eccentrics that live in her apartment building.

[Hot Pepsi]

I was 7 when I saw Return of the Jedi. It was the first film I saw having returned from Africa and as a family we saw it 3 times at the cinema. I loved it, mainly because it gave me some respite from horrible, confusing school and trying to integrate into a culture I was clueless about. Setting aside my emotional attachment to the film, and how important it was to me psychologically, yes it has issues. But whenever I hear someone sneering about Ewoks I just want to tell them to fuck off.

The speeder bike chase in ROTJ is the best action sequence in all 9 films. They've tried to copy it with pod racers, coruscant, and random bits in the new films and the start of Solo. They've never matched it.

The Ewoks were originally going to be Wookiees. But they’d already used the Wookiees so he made them Ewoks. It would have made more sense the other way around.*

The idea he was showing was that a group of committed locals can work together to defeat a technologically superior foe. That is actually true. But to show how that would really go down would be impossible in a PG-rated film.

The speeder bikes are awesome. That was the only toy I wanted from that film. I never got one. By that time, I wasn’t so into playing with actual plastic toys. I was into Atari and the Commodore. So I didn’t prioritize it on my Christmas lists. I should buy one now.

That sequence doesn’t look as good now as I recall, but at the time it was amazing and I suspect it still looks great on the big screen They could go back and clean it up with CGI, but they don’t need to.

*They still haven’t done enough about Chewbacca’s home world and native culture. That could be a film.

[Patrick Thistle]

I knew that about the Wookiees/Ewoks. Kashyyyk was a location in Episode III, and Chewbacca helped save Yoda's life. After Threepio and Artoo he's featured in the most of the core movies.

[Hot Pepsi]

It is briefly in Episode III. It needs to be in more.

Apparently, he helped liberate Kashyyyk after the battle of Endor. That could be a story. Or maybe now that all his old friends are gone, he will return there to be a leader. There could be a thrilling trilogy about his valiant efforts to reach a bipartisan consensus to streamline building code enforcement and improve STEM opportunities for women.

[Bruno]

[I]Han was once part of the imperial navy.

Not a detail I picked up on from watching the movies.

Vader could only bring a few guys with him to Bespin or Han, Leia and Chewbacca would have noticed a big imperial ship already parked there and not come to Bespin at all. Not sure where else they'd have gone, but not there, which would prevent Vader from setting his trap.

I thought they were able to escape because Lando's people were able to delay the Imperials just enough to facilitate the escape.

But Vader didn't really care if Leia etc escaped. He was just trying to create enough of a problem for them so Luke would show up, which he did. He paid Boba Fett etc because those guys were already tracking Han to collect money from Jabba the Hutt.

He didn't even seem to care that Luke got away. He made his point during their duel. He's not trying to capture Luke. He's trying to seduce him to the dark side.

Land a bigger detachment and then move the ship somewhere out of sight. And if the force can stop a laser blast in mid-air I would think it could stop a couple people from running away. Wouldn't Vader know that Leia is his daughter and hence care if she escaped? And wouldn't he want revenge for the last time she and Han escaped and ruined the first movie for him?

Don't humor me, I'm sure this is well-trod ground. Like I said it's a good movie, which for me starts with caring about the characters. As a kid I was pretty entranced by Han's fate. I like Rey, Finn and Poe too, and wish they did more with them somehow.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Like a good Bond villain, Vader is curiously reticent to personally kill the heroes and their mates, despite ample opportunities to do so, even though he dispassionately kills bystanders or indeed billions of people we don't actually see die. I think part of "writing a family blockbuster 1.01 : The Villain" must include instructions to that effect. "He's the embodiment of evil, but you know, he doesn't actually stab anyone or anything like that".

[Hot Pepsi]

It’s unclear if Vader knows who Leia is. It’s also unclear at what point in the series that Lucas decided he was Luke’s sister.

But insofar as he knows who she is, he wouldn’t want to kill her.

It wouldn’t matter how many TIE fighters Vader brought with him. Lando, Leia, Chewbacca, Luke and the Droids would have been able to escape in the MF because that’s just what they can do. At this point in the fictional history, tracking through hyperspace is impossible.

[Ray de Galles]

*They still haven’t done enough about Chewbacca’s home world and native culture. That could be a film.

Even 40+ years on, that subject is probably still toxic due to the Holiday Special, no?

[Patrick Thistle]

In the Original Trilogy Vader kills his own underlings who disappoint, and Obi-Wan, and that's it. The reason the fanboys squealed over Rogue One was the scene at the end when Vader actually cuts loose on his foes. Without that scene the film would be ignored by the fanbase.

[Patrick Thistle]

Even 40+ years on, that subject is probably still toxic due to the Holiday Special, no?

I'm sure Disney could find a way to bring Life Day back into the canon, in a similar fashion to Grand Admiral Thrawn.

The Holiday Special marks the first on-screen appearance of Boba Fett, fact fans. (Don't be fooled by his addition to the Mos Eisley hangar scene in Star Wars Special Edition)

[tracteurgarcon]

In the Original Trilogy Vader kills his own underlings who disappoint, and Obi-Wan, and that's it. The reason the fanboys squealed over Rogue One was the scene at the end when Vader actually cuts loose on his foes. Without that scene the film would be ignored by the fanbase.

He also strangles Captain Antilles.

[Bruno]

Rogue One is the best of the latter-day bunch.

It’s unclear if Vader knows who Leia is. It’s also unclear at what point in the series that Lucas decided he was Luke’s sister.

But insofar as he knows who she is, he wouldn’t want to kill her.

So the storm troopers were told to deliberately miss? Someone could get hurt!

[Hot Pepsi]

In the Original Trilogy Vader kills his own underlings who disappoint, and Obi-Wan, and that's it. The reason the fanboys squealed over Rogue One was the scene at the end when Vader actually cuts loose on his foes. Without that scene the film would be ignored by the fanbase.

I’m sure that’s not true. It’s a good film in its own right and ties in to stuff that was in the cartoon shows, etc, that fans like.

[Hot Pepsi]

Rogue One is the best of the latter-day bunch.



So the storm troopers were told to deliberately miss? Someone could get hurt!

Whether a blaster hit blows up a ship or only disables it in a conveniently plot-advancing way is not consistent in the series. That’s typical in most films, though. Same with people being shot.

It’s clear that Vader doesn’t know his relationship to Leia in the first film. He seems fine with the likelihood that Tarkin will execute her after they find the rebel base.

He doesn’t know, probably because Lucas didn’t either. He knows it by the time he dies in ROTJ but perhaps he only becomes aware of it - through the Force - when she does.

[Hot Pepsi]

He also strangles Captain Antilles.

Correct. And who knows how many others. Dude is a war criminal.

[Patrick Thistle]

Good point on Captain Antilles.

Rogue One is terrible though.

Stormtroopers are deadly accurate but only when the script requires them to be.

[Hot Pepsi]

Good point on Captain Antilles.

Rogue One is terrible though.

Stormtroopers are deadly accurate but only when the script requires them to be.

If you’re concerned about that, you shouldn’t try to enjoy these movies.

That’s always been the case with the Stormtroopers as it is in most war movies.The protagonists have to survive or there’s no story.

Although in the space battles, they can fudge that a bit because the ships all of deflector shields so it may look like they’re not being hit but its just because of the shields. They refer to the shields a lot but don’t really show them. But the TIE Fighters aren’t as well-protected and don’t have hyperdrives so they are easier to kill. The idea is that the Empire just builds lots of them and doesn’t care about the pilots’ lives as much as the Rebels do.


Rogue One is great. I’m watching it again. The CGI Peter Cushing is better than I remembered. They should do more with the Guardians of the Whills. (That’s what the blind monk and his friend are. Non-Jedi holy men).

The part I found most hard to accept is when they are uploading the Death Star plans to the ship and it goes perfectly smoothly. In real life, the computer would say the file type isn’t recognized and insist on finding new driver and then it would crash and ask for the password but not give the operator a place to put in the password because its admin-restricted, so they’d be told to raise a ticket with IT who wouldn’t get back to them for week, by which time they’re all dead.

[Patrick Thistle]

It was billed as a Star Wars war film. But it's a terrible war film.

On the rebel side, strategy is out the window. Missions don't make sense. Superiors give deliberately conflicting orders. They let a brand new recruit into the top briefing area with no security vetting and let her take the briefing. An admiral just decides "Fuck it, we're gonna go!"

On the Imperial side they let a known rebel sympathiser design their ultimate weapon with no scrutiny of his plans. They test their weapon by destroying the only source of the primary construction material. Then they blow up their own intelligence base wiping out considerable assets in a response to a weaksauce threat level.

This isn't a war film. No armies could function like this.

I don't object to Disney allowing a director to aim for gritty realism in a Star Wars film. But it should be realistic. Solo was more realistic in its depiction of war with the scene on Mimban, and that was played for laughs.