Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Star Wars Trailer!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    But that’s always true with these kinds of things. We know the good guys will win.

    Or, you could think of it like an historic drama. You know how the big story goes because it actually happened, but it can be interesting to see the smaller ones that lead to that, either real or imagined.

    I suspect that this will be more about the arcs of individual characters while filling in a bit of the back stories of Saw Guerrera and the formation of the rebellion and all that. The Mandalorian is like that. It connects to the stories that have already been told but isn’t really about that.

    Comment


      A story is floating around from some b-actor in the film that there was an alternative ending where Ren dies and Kylo takes on the name Skywalker.

      Comment


        I’m certain that isn’t true. Certainly, there’s a zero percent chance Disney would make that.

        Comment


          Just seen it. It's basically the Greatest Hits Farewell Tour and it's drawing a line under things.

          By now, we've seen everything that we can and so we should just sit back and relax and enjoy it for what it is. It will never live up to that distant memory when you first saw Star Wars and the Star Destroyer rolled across the screen and blew your mind.

          Comment


            True. But I still wish they’d made it two films and/or planned the last trilogy a bit better. It seems like they did it one script at a time without committing to the important parts of the overall story. On the other hand, it’s very hard to make everyone happy with something like this so at least they played the hits, as you say.

            So far, this has not done as well as the previous two commercially, but then movies in general aren’t doing as well. Meanwhile it seems that Disney + and the Mandalorian in particular is doing great and they’re doing another season of The Clone Wars because clearly there’s an appetite for Star Wars content on Disney +. Likewise, there’s a shit ton of Marvel stuff coming to Disney + just as the Avengers film series is ending.

            So this might not be farewell to Star Wars so much as it’s the beginning of the end of movies as we’ve known them for 100 years.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Eggchaser View Post
              Just seen it. It's basically the Greatest Hits Farewell Tour and it's drawing a line under things.

              By now, we've seen everything that we can and so we should just sit back and relax and enjoy it for what it is. It will never live up to that distant memory when you first saw Star Wars and the Star Destroyer rolled across the screen and blew your mind.
              I think I have told this story before, possibly on this thread, that a friend of mine blagged his way into the press screening of Star Wars when it first came out and there was the bit with the rolling letter at the start then the escape craft and then, of course, the gradual unveiling of the massive star destroyer - after which, the whole cinema of critics stood and applauded. The opening is one of my favourite things ever and that story is also one of my favourite things ever and the latter bolstered the former even moreso.

              Comment


                It is one of the best openings to any film ever.

                Comment


                  Here is some recently released/leaked test footage of Star Wars: Underworld, a show Lucasfilm was working on a while back before Disney decided to go with The Mandalorian. But based on Rogue One, I suspect the Cassian Andor show will look a lot like this. But better.

                  https://youtu.be/RbWRuEtElQM

                  Comment


                    I enjoyed The Rise of Skywalker for what it was (which was mostly a greatest hits package, as others have said).

                    The be honest though, I thought Star Wars was starting to run out of ideas around Return of the Jedi. Ewoks, risible marksmanship, a recycled plot and some bad early CGI.

                    Thing is, can you make a Star Wars film and ignore most of the tropes? No lightsabers, stormtroopers or death stars, no against-the-odds space battles, no cute robots, no dark vs. light, etc. etc.

                    Were the prequels any good, they might have been more like Godfather Part II in chronicling Anakin's downfall. But would that be a Star Wars film?

                    Comment


                      Thing is, can you make a Star Wars film and ignore most of the tropes? No lightsabers, stormtroopers or death stars, no against-the-odds space battles, no cute robots, no dark vs. light, etc. etc.


                      The Mandalorian and Solo are kind of like that. The robots are more clever and less "cute." The stakes in any given episode are smaller and matter only to a protagonist or two as opposed to the entire galaxy of 100 quadrillion sentient beings. There's a bit more ambiguity early on about who is "good" and who is "bad," but ultimately the same overall theory of light versus dark prevails. Good/light is about love for other people and allowing them to be who they are, and choosing hope over fear, kindness over anger, even if it is hard or even fatal. Evil/dark is about control and power and imposing order on nature and other people. It's the easy way, really.

                      And, as I've said, the cartoon shows are very good once you get past the cartoon aspect of them. The stories are more complicated and fully realized.

                      But there's no point in doing a Star Wars story that doesn't have at least some of the things that people like about the original Star Wars.

                      Comment


                        The problem with the prequels is they were about Anakin, and no one really cared about his story. We knew he ended up as Darth Vader and his journey to the dark side wasn't told well. The problem with the threequels* is that they were about new characters and the old characters just got killed off film by film starting with the best character in the whole original trilogy.

                        Comment


                          Yeah. What kind of a director kills off Liam Neeson and Samuel Jackson.

                          Comment


                            You know what I like most about Star Wars? Especially in the original ones... the sound effects. Most other films were just using stock laser and/or gunshot sounds. Ben Brutt developed an entire soundscape of his own. Whirring sounds of electricity generators, spaceship landing sounds, the Darth Vader breathing, the background sound of being on a Death Star, the LIGHT SABRE. And it was all done with brilliant analogue creativity.

                            Edit... oooh, youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So0nmciiFJg
                            Last edited by anton pulisov; 05-02-2020, 17:18.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                              The problem with the prequels is they were about Anakin, and no one really cared about his story. We knew he ended up as Darth Vader and his journey to the dark side wasn't told well. The problem with the threequels* is that they were about new characters and the old characters just got killed off film by film starting with the best character in the whole original trilogy.
                              The Anakin story, which is really the Anakin-Kenobi-Ahshoka-Padme-Yoda-Palpatine story, is more interesting in The Clone Wars. It just wasn't well-executed in the prequels for a number of reasons.

                              The new characters in the threequels is the best thing about them, but I also really liked how they handled Luke. The fanboys who hated TLJ because "Luke would never do that" are, well, just dumb. I can't think of a more charitable feeling about that take. Everyone who has ever tried to be deeply spiritual or fully committed to any kind of cause will, sooner or later, be disappointed in their cause/church/whatever. They either just give up and die disappointed or their faith is transformed or renewed. In Luke's case, Rey helped him remember why he used to care and he decides to give his last mortal breath standing up for hope one last time. That was a perfect way to end his story.*

                              Han died a bit early in the series, but then I think that's what Harrison Ford wanted. He originally wanted to get killed off in Empire. And it sets up what kind of character Ren is. I think they would have done more with Leia if Carrie Fisher hadn't died.


                              I don't think they made Rey the Emperor's grandchild to "reputidate" the Last Jedi or for "fan service" or to insist on the idea that Jedi have to be part of special families. I think they did it that way because if Rey didn't have some kind of connection to The Big Bad, then it would be hard to tie her character's arc to the overall story of the Resistance vs The First Order. And the story kind of needs that to raise the stakes of the final showdown. If Rey is just a Jedi from nowhere, then it's hard to believe she'd really feel any pull toward the dark side. As it is, all of that business with her seeing her dark self felt a bit tacked on and made just for the trailers. But in the end when she considers taking the Iron Throne or whatever to save her friends, it at least makes some sense within the story logic. Without that connection, her choice to not go dark loses some of its gravity.

                              Ren's line was "kill the past," IIRC. But, as somebody once said, we may be done with the past but it's not done with us. So that was how Disney decided to do the last film. I think there's a way that could have worked a lot better than it did, but it would have required another film, at least.

                              Of course, they could have dispensed with the emperor and made the climax a showdown between Ren and Rey, but it's hard to make the stakes of that work either because it seems like Ren didn't really give a shit about the First Order or all those ships or taking over the galaxy. He wanted to burn all that down. Indeed, it's not clear what he wanted other than to kill his own family. If the story ends with her just killing him because he's a psycho, then all the stuff with all the other characters and the fate of the Galaxy doesn't matter. It would just be like that Breaking Bad in space, but not in a good way. That wouldn't be satisfying. Besides, in The Force Awakens, its established that Ren is actually a bit conflicted about his family. He's Emo Vader. Not nearly as confident and certain of his path as Darth Vader is in ANH and ESB. So for him not to change his mind at the end would have seemed anticlimatic. And a downer.


                              As I recall, Timothy Zahn's sequel novels, which I read about 20 years ago, posited that Han and Leia have twins and one goes dark. I think that was kinda what they were going for with Ren and Rey, but they changed it so that only one of them was a child of Leia and Han and kept the other's origin a mystery just for the sake of having it be a mystery. I think it would have been better to do some version of what Zahn did with that and not have to bring Palpatine back in. But they could have used Thrawn instead of Snoke. Thrawn is a great villain, used effectively in Rebels, some novels and comics.Benedict Cumberbatch would be the obvious choice there.



                              *Not only was that an interesting arc for Luke, it wouldn't have done the overall story justice to never have somebody point out that there are a lot of problems with the whole Jedi thing. That's not just evident in the expanded universe or even the prequels. It's baked into the original story! Yoda and OWK failed to stop Anakin from going dark. That's established in ANH and ESB. And in the prequels/Clone Wars, the Republic that the Jedi are loyal to is certainly not a utopian democracy. The Separatists leaders are grifters and crime bosses, but you can kinda understand some of their grievances.The Jedi come off a bit out-of-touch and in need of reform. And all the while Yoda, despite supposedly being 850 years wise, totally fails to see how Palpatine/Sidious is ginnig up the whole war just to position himself to be emperor. Just a complete airball by Master Yoda. That needed to be acknowledged somehow.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
                                You know what I like most about Star Wars? Especially in the original ones... the sound effects. Most other films were just using stock laser and/or gunshot sounds. Ben Brutt developed an entire soundscape of his own. Whirring sounds of electricity generators, spaceship landing sounds, the Darth Vader breathing, the background sound of being on a Death Star, the LIGHT SABRE. And it was all done with brilliant analogue creativity.

                                Edit... oooh, youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So0nmciiFJg
                                This is 100% true.

                                And the design of all the spaceships and what not.

                                And the music.

                                Indeed, it's hard to overestimate John Williams' impact on popular culture. He's been nominated for 51 Oscars, or something like that. The history of film would be a lot different without Star Wars, ET, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Close Encounters, Harry Potter, Jaws, etc, etc, and all of those films would be a lot less fun without his music. Maybe somebody else would do motifs and recognizable melodies the way he did, but he's the one who did it.

                                In 200 years when the US no longer exists, people will still be using the Imperial March as the ringtone for their boss on their hand-terminal/communications implant or whatever replaces the mobile phone.

                                Comment


                                  Well, the Imperial March is essentially a cover of Chopin's "Funeral March", but the opening Star Wars music stands as a classic in itself and will be played in many years from now.

                                  Comment


                                    Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
                                    Well, the Imperial March is essentially a cover of Chopin's "Funeral March", but the opening Star Wars music stands as a classic in itself and will be played in many years from now.
                                    I’ve never heard Chopin’s funeral march played that loud with that many horns, but I can hear the similarities.

                                    We’re used to the idea that Star Wars has “big” music because most big blockbuster action adventure films have big music - full orchestra, big hooks in the melody, themes/motifs for each character, etc. Star Wars played an important role in creating that expectation.

                                    But I suspect that wasn’t such an obvious choice when they made the first Star Wars. A lot of directors might have gone with something more modern or even electronic. Something more like the original Star Trek theme or the Dr Who theme.

                                    2001 used classical music, of course, but it wasn’t trying to blow the roof off the place the way the Star Wars score does.

                                    And, IIRC he got kicked out of the DGA for refusing to have credits before the film. That was totally worth it. The way it just kicks the door down and goes right into the crawl is fantastic and the only way to do it.

                                    Comment


                                      Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post

                                      This is 100% true.

                                      And the design of all the spaceships and what not.
                                      Oh this was also very good. Most space films show space travel as a super-advanced technology. Star Wars introduced the idea of people flying around in space in outdated, half-broken ships that they only just manage to keep 'on the road'.

                                      Comment


                                        Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post

                                        Oh this was also very good. Most space films show space travel as a super-advanced technology. Star Wars introduced the idea of people flying around in space in outdated, half-broken ships that they only just manage to keep 'on the road'.
                                        And also spaceships that didn't need to look like aeroplanes or flying ocean liners in space because they didn't need to be streamlined. Although mumpo will be along to remind us that there is no way a TIE fighter could fly in an atmosphere without its wings just popping off and that the Millennium Falcon would definitely never have left the floor.

                                        Comment


                                          Start Trek started to copy this in the post-Star Wars era. Klingon ships being absolute dumps, for example.

                                          Comment


                                            Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post

                                            Oh this was also very good. Most space films show space travel as a super-advanced technology. Star Wars introduced the idea of people flying around in space in outdated, half-broken ships that they only just manage to keep 'on the road'.
                                            A concept taken to the next level by Firefly.

                                            Comment


                                              Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                              As I recall, Timothy Zahn's sequel novels, which I read about 20 years ago, posited that Han and Leia have twins and one goes dark. I think that was kinda what they were going for with Ren and Rey, but they changed it so that only one of them was a child of Leia and Han and kept the other's origin a mystery just for the sake of having it be a mystery. I think it would have been better to do some version of what Zahn did with that and not have to bring Palpatine back in.

                                              Yes, twin boy and girl called Jacen and Jaden (you can tell these were written in the 90s!) and then another child they called Anakin. AFAICR Jacen went over to the dark side and fought Luke, then Anakin went over to the dark side too. I haven't read all those book and they were just nippers in the Zahn books.

                                              Comment


                                                Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post

                                                Oh this was also very good. Most space films show space travel as a super-advanced technology. Star Wars introduced the idea of people flying around in space in outdated, half-broken ships that they only just manage to keep 'on the road'.
                                                I think this is why the prequels look so crap. Apart from the CGI being too smooth (which they seem to have reined back on in the last three), everything looks too shiny and new. Indeed, a lot of the technology actually looks more advanced than the three middle films even though they predate them. What I loved about the three originals is the clunkiness of the movement of spaceships, droids and, to a certain extent, weaponry and the 'used' feel of everything. The last three plus the offshoots seem to have returned to that look and feel even though they could have done so much more with CGI (I know that there are mass crowd scenes and whatnot that are CGIed but they have kept a tighter rein on it). For instance, the destroyed Star Destroyer and Death Star are, I am sure, CGI for the most part but still have the look of real structures that have been there for years.

                                                Comment


                                                  That depends where in the prequels the action is though. Even in Episode I, the Queen's ship is as swish as you'd expect, the droid armies are function over form, the Gungan stuff is grungey, Tatooine is a dusty dump and Coruscant is mainly gleaming hallways of power. In Episode II, the seedy and industrial sides of Coruscant are there, while Naboo is idyllic and so on. Kamino is a bit overly clean for a lab setting, but is supposed to be high tech, and contrasts with the hive steel foundries of Geonosis.

                                                  Comment


                                                    CGI has of course improved a lot between the early 2000s and today

                                                    Comment

                                                    Working...
                                                    X