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    The Genius of Charles Darwin

    I can't be the only one have watched this?

    I was really looking forward to it but only found out just beforehand that Richard Dawkins was presenting it.

    This made my heart sink. Firstly, he isn't the most natural of TV presenters. Secondly, I did wonder how much the programme would be about Darwin and how much would be about Dawkins.

    It didn't start off dreadfully well when it looked like the whole thing might become "The Root Of All Evil" but with a bit of Darwin draped around it.

    Certainly, the bits with the 16 year old kids were absolutely pointless. Equally, the bits where he kept on going on how "The Origin Of Species" was the most important book in the library of this species etc, reminded me of Brian Clough complaining about Sky commentators going on about how good every game they show is.

    As he says, we aren't stupid, we know when a game is good and, equally, the story of Darwin and evolution is fucking fantastic, Richard, just tell us it and we will see that for ourselves.

    I was hugely disappointed that Dawkins didn't delve more into what must have been a huge issue for Darwin when his research brought him to the conclusion that there was no God. This seemed to be completely glossed over in a way that a historian, for instance, wouldn't do.

    Having said that, this whole series looks like it is going to be about Darwin's work rather than the man himself but it still would have been nice to hear about what must have been a major point in his life.

    Having said all this, once the programme went on, there were some really good bits, the Aids section was excellent and Dawkins treated it sensitively. I thought that Dawkins talking over endless footage of animals fucking was an, erm, interesting bit of editing and, for some reason, I really enjoyed the piano keyboard as a timeline for the history of the world.

    It will be interesting to see how next week's goes. Hopefully, they will do away with some of the "Richard tell us all how important Darwin is" parts and start showing us instead. For one thing, he isn't the greatest at interacting with other people on TV. Not a criticism, his job isn't to be Johnathon Ross but they should play to his strengths (the science bits)

    I was thinking of who I may have preferred to have presented this and I was thinking of David Attenborough and (don't laugh, I know I keep referring to him) Bill Bryson and I remembered that Attenbrough is supposed to be doing his own documentary on Darwin, preseumably for BBC, so I don't know whether this is a spoiler for Channel 4

    #2
    The Genius of Charles Darwin

    I was hugely disappointed that Dawkins didn't delve more into what must have been a huge issue for Darwin when his research brought him to the conclusion that there was no God. This seemed to be completely glossed over in a way that a historian, for instance, wouldn't do.
    Yes, this is interesting- though I associate that less with a historian than a biographer. I think I recall from a note in The Selfish Gene that there was a particularly cruel animal that finally convinced Darwin there was no benevolent God.

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      #3
      The Genius of Charles Darwin

      I didn't see this.

      I think Dawkins is a fair enough choice to present, as it happens. Insofar as there's masses of controversy attached to Darwin, it's attached to Dawkins. And while I think he's at least a bit culpable for that, a huge amount of the program - from what i've heard - is premised on the existence of that controversy.

      To be honest, historians of Darwin (I know about four or five of the top ten personally/professionally, so I speak with some authority) just aren't that interested in Darwin's attitude to religion. I mean, it's a profoundly interesting set of stuff that happened around him, but his personal degree of tortured reflection seems to have been relatively untortuous and at no point in his life do his views on religion - apart from his preexisting intellectual background - appear to have affected his views on biology much at all.

      Re the Attenborough thing as well; yeah, the next year or so is a big big time for the Darwin industry. 150th anniversary of the Origin, y'see.

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        #4
        The Genius of Charles Darwin

        Incredibly, I missed this. Hope it's on V+.

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          #5
          The Genius of Charles Darwin

          The BBC season that includes the Attenborough film covers off Darwin's influence on political and religious thought with a three-parter by top OTF favourite, Andrew Marr.

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            #6
            The Genius of Charles Darwin

            I'm just glad it isn't Alan Titchmarsh. Or Neil Oliver.

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              #7
              The Genius of Charles Darwin

              Marr's a bit of a Darwin fan, isn't he? He did the thing on Darwin for that Greatest Ever British Dude Show a few years ago. He was shit.

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                #8
                The Genius of Charles Darwin

                On the basis of that series, we could do a lot worse than Jeremy Clarkson.

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                  #9
                  The Genius of Charles Darwin

                  When was this shown, and which channel? I'll see if I can dredge it up on BT Vision.

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                    #10
                    The Genius of Charles Darwin

                    Last night at 8 on Channel 4 SR. Here's the website for the show.

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                      #11
                      The Genius of Charles Darwin

                      Tubby Isaacs wrote:
                      On the basis of that series, we could do a lot worse than Jeremy Clarkson.
                      "If this car was an evolutionary event... it'd be the Cambrian Explosion!"

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                        #12
                        The Genius of Charles Darwin

                        So in this programme, did that controversial little tinker Dawkins conclude by saying that evolution disproves the existence of God?

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                          #13
                          The Genius of Charles Darwin

                          No, he just said that after Origin there was no need for supernatural explanations.

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                            #14
                            The Genius of Charles Darwin

                            He didn't really, he didn't actually spend much time on the ramifications of Darwin's findings to God people. Those potential ramifications seemed to be one reason why Darwin kept his findings private for so long, it was only when word came through to him that another biologist was planning to publish the findings he himself had made that convinced Darwin to push ahead.

                            Perhaps the uproar that his book caused will be covered next week.

                            I enjoyed this programme and I don't mind Dawkins as a presenter. It was more of an ideal setting for him, he didn't have to argue with closed minded religious fools, something which always causes his bile to rise. He's not brilliant at disguising his frustration at debating with fools, but take that out of the equation and he comes over quite avuncular like.

                            Generally fascinating stuff anyway. I knew the basics of Darwin's findings but this filled in a lot of the gaps, gaps on a subject as important as this I really shouldn't have had.

                            The one depressing part was the schoolkids segment. They seemed pretty rational, intelligent 15 and 16 year olds, yet even after spending time with Dawkins patiently explaining things to them and showing them proof of fossils and evolution at work they still preferred to believe what their holy book had told them.

                            Four out of ten people in the UK believe in the Creation theory. How depressing is that figure.

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                              #15
                              The Genius of Charles Darwin

                              The Horse wrote:
                              So in this programme, did that controversial little tinker Dawkins conclude by saying that evolution disproves the existence of God?
                              I've never seen him claim that. It would be nonsense, actually.

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                                #16
                                The Genius of Charles Darwin

                                Yeah, but a lot of people insist on inferring it so I'm wondering exactly what he did say. (Sorry, this is for work.)

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                                  #17
                                  The Genius of Charles Darwin

                                  Ah, OK. I thought you'd had some sort of rush of blood to the head.

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                                    #18
                                    The Genius of Charles Darwin

                                    I agree with Dalliance..the schoolkids were a shock to me....I was taught by priests,nuns and monks and none of my fellow students would have spouted the shite they spouted..even the priests et al didn't believe in creation as literal..there's something seriously wrong with a generation if they're thinking(or not thinking) like that selection
                                    Couldn't see the point in including the schoolkids to be honest

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                                      #19
                                      The Genius of Charles Darwin

                                      Four out of ten people in the UK believe in the Creation theory. How depressing is that figure.
                                      I've never met anyone outside of the context of an internet fourm that actually believed in creationism. I doubt thuis proves anything, it's just an anecdote.

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                                        #20
                                        The Genius of Charles Darwin

                                        If anyone watches it again, could they check, during the sequence where Dawkins is explaining using Darwin's original pigeon specimens, that he uses the word "plastic" when I am sure that he means "elastic"?

                                        Actually, the pigeon piece was interesting as well and a point when Dawkins looked genuinely in awe and let his enthusiasm come through without having to signpost "This is impressive stuff"

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                                          #21
                                          The Genius of Charles Darwin

                                          I agree with Dalliance..the schoolkids were a shock to me....I was taught by priests,nuns and monks and none of my fellow students would have spouted the shite they spouted..even the priests et al didn't believe in creation as literal..there's something seriously wrong with a generation if they're thinking(or not thinking) like that selection
                                          Sorry, I genuinely can't remember any of them afterwards saying that Dawkins hadn't convinced them against creationism, only that they hadn't turned away from their religion. I stand to be corrected however.

                                          As Dawkins rightly said, at least they were questioning it.

                                          Seeing as most of my mates at that age thought that smoking banana skins and eating loads of polo mints washed down with Coke would make you high, nothing would surprise me about 16 year olds which is why I thought the piece was pretty useless.

                                          An investigation into why less kids are taking science GCSEs or the amount of time given to science compared to RE woudl have been much more useful (although less "sexy" TV probably)

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                                            #22
                                            The Genius of Charles Darwin

                                            I think Dawkins is a fair enough choice to present, as it happens. Insofar as there's masses of controversy attached to Darwin, it's attached to Dawkins. And while I think he's at least a bit culpable for that, a huge amount of the program - from what i've heard - is premised on the existence of that controversy.
                                            Is that historical controversy or modern controversy?

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                                              #23
                                              The Genius of Charles Darwin

                                              QUOTE:
                                              So in this programme, did that controversial little tinker Dawkins conclude by saying that evolution disproves the existence of God?

                                              I've never seen him claim that. It would be nonsense, actually.
                                              Actually, and again I stand to be corrected by someone who watches it again, I think he did at some point go very close to that with another quote apart from the one mentioned upthread.

                                              I don't remember the quote but I do remember thinking it odd as he has only gone as far as stating that the existence of God is very very improbable before.

                                              As I say, I could very well have misheard, I had to put away the laundry at the same time

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                                                #24
                                                The Genius of Charles Darwin

                                                I think Dawkins is a fair enough choice to present, as it happens.
                                                Yes, taking into account Attenborough is doing the BBC one and that Channel 4 have done all the other Dawkins stuff.

                                                I would like to see how Dennet would fare , he has always been very good on the radio but, as far as I know, has never done any TV. I suppose he isn't a big name.

                                                Mind you, my choice of Dennett is because he has a lovely voice and looks like a combination of Darwin, Father Christmas and a 50s movie representation of God. It would enteratin me anyway. Maybe him and Bill Bryson could do it

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                                                  #25
                                                  The Genius of Charles Darwin

                                                  I plussed it so I'll watch it on Thursday and see if I can spot the quote, BoD.

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