Robin Williams

[Renart]

Robin Williams

Agreed. I've dealt with depression most of my life—since I was a teenager, at least. But I've never really been suicidal. I've had what they call "suicidal ideation", brief thoughts of jumping off a bridge or shooting myself, but they've actually worked to jolt me into seeking help when they've happened. They're terrifying.

I've never actually made plans to kill myself or got to the point where I was anywhere near a danger to myself. (Now "self-destructive behavior," on the other hand, I've certainly indulged in when depressed, but I don't think that's quite the same thing.)

Anyway, I do think depression is a problem whose magnitude we've only recently come to understand. It's the common cold of mental health, at least in the industrial West, and its toll on quality of life, from just feeling rotten all the way to broken families and substance abuse and suicide, is immense. Unfortunately, in my opinion, it is the very structure of daily life in the industrial West that makes many of us depressed. Greater material and social equality, more meaningful work, and more leisure time with friends, family, nature, and hobbies would probably help a lot of us as much as therapy. But that's me grinding my political ax, of course.

[G-Man]

Robin Williams

Pope Francis recently gave his "ten tips for happiness" (as the magazine that interviewed him styled it). Much of what you say he agrees with.

[Reed John]

Robin Williams

That's definitely true. Some people want to claim that depression and anxiety are made-up problems because our Capitalist paradise has eliminated all of the real problems and they suggest that the apparent lack of depression in the past proves that.

But both parts of that are wrong.

People in the past were depressed and anxious. They just didn't know what to call it.

The rates of depression in the non-industrialized or poorer parts of the industrialized world appear to be lower, but part of that is because its simply not diagnosed, partly because there's no mental health services, but also because being sad and anxious seems like the healthy response to the situation. But I've read that efforts to identify and treat depression in places like that can yield remarkable results.

And, as you're suggesting, our culture creates a fertile ground for mental illness by putting tremendous strain on social and family connections while creating a lot of unrealistic expectations and pressures on people, especially young people. Part of that is related to capitalism, yes, but I think a lot of it is also related to rapidly advancing technology and the way we're now expected to "multi-task" even though our brains can't actually do that. That could be a problem even in a socialist environment.

I'm going to start a new thread sort of on this.

[Renart]

Robin Williams

G-Man wrote: Pope Francis recently gave his "ten tips for happiness" (as the magazine that interviewed him styled it). Much of what you say he agrees with.

Good old Papa Francisco!

(I have my differences with him, of course, but he's definitely my favorite pope of my lifetime.)

[ursus arctos]

Robin Williams

He gave an interview on the plane back from South Korea in which he said that he thought he might only have another two or three years to live and that he might even retire. It wasn't entirely clear how serious he was about that (as he also talked about the need to treat his nerve condition with mate).

Maybe San Lorenzo winning the Copa Libertadores wasn't such a good thing. I would hope that he at least sticks around for the next Argentine World Cup campaign.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Robin Williams

People in the past were depressed and anxious. They just didn't know what to call it.

Melancholia... the blues... the hump.

[Reed John]

Robin Williams

Yeah, but I'm not sure they thought of it in chemical/medical terms.

Never heard of "the hump."

I think the blues are a subset of depression specific to when when one's woman up and leaves 'cos one ain't treated her right.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Robin Williams

I believe melancholia was considered a medical condition in its day — often treated with liberal quantities of laudanum.

The Hump (according to a dictionary of UK slang)

'A bad mood. Always preceded by the. E.g."She's got the hump after being told she looks fat."'

[Lucia Lanigan]

Robin Williams

'Avin the 'ump - shoot it with the bop gun

Neurasthenia was the other Victorian/Edwardian one, wasn't it. Sort of depression with a dash of fatigue, treated with the rest cure. By the 20th century, my gran just used to have "one of her moods" which involved taking valium and having a good lie down down after shouting "kill 'im!" at the wrestling for a bit.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the insanely specific DSM 5.1 (or whatever it is now) diagnostic system went out of favour soon, and people revived melancholia and neurasthenia as they have Mason jars and manky beards. There's a a lot of status potential in rest cures, I give it two years before the NY Times does a piece on them being fashionable with the Park Slope set.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Robin Williams

Yes, Neurasthenia, very popular in its day.

Rest cures and "taking the waters" are still popular in some places. Just the other day La Signora got a postcard from a French doctor friend who's at Le Roussillon "to cure my muscles with thermal warm water, mud and gymnastic."

There's a a lot of status potential in rest cures, I give it two years before the NY Times does a piece on them being fashionable with the Park Slope set.

I think you're absolutely dead on. Especially if the the steampunk side of the whole operation is emphasised.

Hmmm. BC is loaded with hot-springs. Maybe there's still time to get ahead of the curve.

[Reed John]

Robin Williams

That's all good info on the Victorians.

I guess I was thinking further back in time. Like the 18th century through around the time of of Kierkegaard, who was known to have melancholy but, as far as I know, didn't medicate it. But he died in 1855 so maybe it hadn't become fashionable in Denmark by then.

Anyway, taking loads of opiates isn't a good way to handle depression, I wouldn't think.

Did this doctor send the post-card in 1920?

[Amor de Cosmos]

Robin Williams

Heh! Southern Germany and France are still loaded with spas. My in-laws live close to Aix-les-Bains which, as the name suggests, has several including this one which doubles as a Casino:

[Amor de Cosmos]

Robin Williams

.

[G-Man]

Robin Williams

ursus arctos wrote: He gave an interview on the plane back from South Korea in which he said that he thought he might only have another two or three years to live and that he might even retire. It wasn't entirely clear how serious he was about that (as he also talked about the need to treat his nerve condition with mate).

He keeps riffing on mate (the Argentinian tea, not the sarcastically referred to guy who accidentally bumped into you at the pub). It's his standard inside joke.

He is serious about retiring, if he can't do the job. Benedict has set the precedent, now it's a norm, according to Frank. And if the theologians don't like it, maybe they'll be proven right in a hundred years time, but for now it is as he sees it, he added.

[Reed John]

Robin Williams

Amor de Cosmos wrote: Heh! Southern Germany and France are still loaded with spas. My in-laws live close to Aix-les-Bains which, as the name suggests, has several including this one which doubles as a Casino:

A Casino is, if you think about it, the exact opposite of a health spa.

[Sam]

Robin Williams

I tried to find somewhere in Football to post this, but couldn't; this was the most recent relevant thread on the subject of famous folk and depression...

Gabriel Batistuta is currently giving an interview on TyC Sports (Argentina). He's just admitted that when he retired from playing, his ankle pain was so bad that he talked to a doctor about having his lower legs amputated. He saw Oscar Pistorius on TV and thought, 'That would be a solution.'

He also says that if he woke up at night needing a piss, he'd voluntarily wet the bed because the alternative - getting up to walk to the bathroom - would be too painful for him to bear.

Now he's able to have a kickabout again.

At least that one has a happy ending...