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RIP Norm Macdonald

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    FBDO is excellent. My kids even love it. I'm also a big fan of Uncle Buck, Sixteen Candles, Pretty in Pink, and Planes, Trains and Automobiles. All written and directed by Hughes. Also, Home Alone, which is fantastic.

    Mentioned in the same breath is often Weird Science, which I didn't see in the '80s and have also never seen once in the intervening 35+ years.

    Comment


      Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
      There is a thing that always makes me nervous about "of its time" or "Doing it for laughs" defences. And it's that it usually refers to a piece of comedy that violates a fairly important rule of comedy. Don't punch down. If you don't want your comedy to have the shelf life of a chocolate eclair, do not punch down. Firstly it makes you look like a cunt at the time to anyone with a brain or a heart, but secondly the "humour" relies on the social attitudes of the day, that are most likely to shift radically over time, and that is, who is the current weak outgroup who is least able to hit back. That will change. I'm not sure if there would be a box set of Laurel and hardy films above my telly if every third joke was about the jews, or black people, or whatever was wildly popular in the 30's.
      Couldn't agree more. I happened upon the complete lyrics to the old music-hall standard She Was Poor, But She Was Honest recently. It manages to be funny, righteously angry, and poignant simultaneously. That's a rare combination these days


      She was poor but she was honest
      though she came from humble stock
      And her honest heart was beating
      Underneath her tattered frock

      But the rich man saw her beauty
      She knew not his base design
      And he took her to a hotel
      And bought her a small port wine

      It's the same the whole world over
      It's the poor what gets the blame
      It's the rich what gets the pleasure
      Isn't it a blooming shame?

      In the rich man's arms she fluttered
      Like a bird with a broken wing
      But he loved her and he left her
      Now she hasn't got no ring

      Time has flown - outcast and homeless
      In the street she stands and says
      While the snowflakes fall around her
      'Won't you buy my bootlaces'

      It's the same the whole world over
      It's the poor what gets the blame
      It's the rich what gets the pleasure
      Isn't it a blooming shame?

      Standing on the bridge at midnight
      She says 'Farewell blighted love!'
      There's a scream a splash good 'eavens!
      What is she a doing of?

      Soon they dragged her from the river
      Water from her clothes they wrang
      They all thought that she was drownded
      But the corpse got up and sang:

      It's the same the whole world over
      It's the poor what gets the blame
      It's the rich what gets the pleasure
      Isn't it a blooming shame?

      She was poor but she was honest
      Victim of a rich man's game
      First he loved her then he left her
      And she lost her maiden name

      Then she ran away to London
      For to hide her grief and shame
      There she met an Army captain
      And she lost her name again

      It's the same the whole world over
      It's the poor what gets the blame
      It's the rich what gets the pleasure
      Isn't it a blooming shame?

      See him riding in a carriage
      Past the gutter where she stands
      He has made a stylish marriage
      While she wrings her ringless hands

      See him there at the theatre
      In the front row with the best
      While the girl that he has ruined
      Entertains a sordid guest

      It's the same the whole world over
      It's the poor what gets the blame
      It's the rich what gets the pleasure
      Isn't it a blooming shame?

      See her on the bridge at midnight
      Crying "Farewell blighted love"
      Then a scream a splash and Goodness!
      What is she a-doing of?

      When they dragged her from the river
      Water from her clothes they wrung
      Though they thought that she was drown
      Still her corpse got up and sung:

      It's the same the whole world over
      It's the poor what gets the blame
      It's the rich what gets the pleasure
      Isn't it a blooming shame?

      Comment


        Originally posted by WOM View Post
        FBDO is excellent. My kids even love it. I'm also a big fan of Uncle Buck, Sixteen Candles, Pretty in Pink, and Planes, Trains and Automobiles. All written and directed by Hughes. Also, Home Alone, which is fantastic.

        Mentioned in the same breath is often Weird Science, which I didn't see in the '80s and have also never seen once in the intervening 35+ years.
        Yeah.
        I think Sixteen Candles is the one that usually gets flagged now as having aged poorly for a few reasons. The others are mostly ok. TP&A is an all time great film.
        Pretty in Pink would work better now if she ***spoiler*** didn't end up with either boy. I think they originally wanted her to go with Ducky or maybe stay alone, but test audiences insisted she end up with Blane. Test audiences in the 80s were dumb.

        Weird Science is problematic, but does have a good performance from Bill Paxton as an all time 80's asshole. I don't think I've seen that in at least 30 years.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post

          Couldn't agree more. I happened upon the complete lyrics to the old music-hall standard She Was Poor, But She Was Honest recently. It manages to be funny, righteously angry, and poignant simultaneously. That's a rare combination these days


          She was poor but she was honest
          though she came from humble stock
          And her honest heart was beating
          Underneath her tattered frock

          But the rich man saw her beauty
          She knew not his base design
          And he took her to a hotel
          And bought her a small port wine

          It's the same the whole world over
          It's the poor what gets the blame
          It's the rich what gets the pleasure
          Isn't it a blooming shame?

          In the rich man's arms she fluttered
          Like a bird with a broken wing
          But he loved her and he left her
          Now she hasn't got no ring

          Time has flown - outcast and homeless
          In the street she stands and says
          While the snowflakes fall around her
          'Won't you buy my bootlaces'

          It's the same the whole world over
          It's the poor what gets the blame
          It's the rich what gets the pleasure
          Isn't it a blooming shame?

          Standing on the bridge at midnight
          She says 'Farewell blighted love!'
          There's a scream a splash good 'eavens!
          What is she a doing of?

          Soon they dragged her from the river
          Water from her clothes they wrang
          They all thought that she was drownded
          But the corpse got up and sang:

          It's the same the whole world over
          It's the poor what gets the blame
          It's the rich what gets the pleasure
          Isn't it a blooming shame?

          She was poor but she was honest
          Victim of a rich man's game
          First he loved her then he left her
          And she lost her maiden name

          Then she ran away to London
          For to hide her grief and shame
          There she met an Army captain
          And she lost her name again

          It's the same the whole world over
          It's the poor what gets the blame
          It's the rich what gets the pleasure
          Isn't it a blooming shame?

          See him riding in a carriage
          Past the gutter where she stands
          He has made a stylish marriage
          While she wrings her ringless hands

          See him there at the theatre
          In the front row with the best
          While the girl that he has ruined
          Entertains a sordid guest

          It's the same the whole world over
          It's the poor what gets the blame
          It's the rich what gets the pleasure
          Isn't it a blooming shame?

          See her on the bridge at midnight
          Crying "Farewell blighted love"
          Then a scream a splash and Goodness!
          What is she a-doing of?

          When they dragged her from the river
          Water from her clothes they wrung
          Though they thought that she was drown
          Still her corpse got up and sung:

          It's the same the whole world over
          It's the poor what gets the blame
          It's the rich what gets the pleasure
          Isn't it a blooming shame?
          Is this song the reply to "Have some madeira m'dear"?

          Too many lost their lives in the east coast/west coast music hall gang feuds

          Comment


            No it's much, much older than Flanders and Swann. So old it's in the public domain.
            Here's Billy Bennett's version from the 1930s

            Comment


              I've read the chorus many times, but I've never heard the actual song before. I'm kind of surprised that Luke Kelly didn't record a version of this. This sort of english folk song was right up his street.

              Comment


                This article from Rolling Stone is very weird. It's a gushing eulogy that also mentions Norm being on the wrong side of history.

                https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-f...n-1226839/amp/

                (Also what is a "separatist community"?)

                Comment


                  Yeah, but it mirrors my own feelings pretty well. I'm more upset by this than I ever am about celebrity deaths, but I also wish he hadn't made so many trans jokes or gay jokes, and so late in his career either when he should have known better. But he was imperfect, like we all are. He was just imperfect on tape, so it will last much longer and do more damage.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by WOM View Post
                    and so late in his career either when he should have known better.
                    This.

                    I've not seen the "oblique apology" referenced in the Rolling Stone thread.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                      There is a thing that always makes me nervous about "of its time" or "Doing it for laughs" defences. And it's that it usually refers to a piece of comedy that violates a fairly important rule of comedy. Don't punch down. If you don't want your comedy to have the shelf life of a chocolate eclair, do not punch down. Firstly it makes you look like a cunt at the time to anyone with a brain or a heart, but secondly the "humour" relies on the social attitudes of the day, that are most likely to shift radically over time, and that is, who is the current weak outgroup who is least able to hit back. That will change. I'm not sure if there would be a box set of Laurel and hardy films above my telly if every third joke was about the jews, or black people, or whatever was wildly popular in the 30's.
                      I'm not even sure about "punching up" tbh. So much of that is lazy hackery.

                      Some of what Norm said about Trump applies here. Trump was a really easy target. Too easy really. And the jokes ended up being less funny.

                      Comment


                        Well I'm not advocating for every comic venture to be about smashing the system god knows. That seems to be a recipe for more fucking Ben Elton. More steer clear of the cheap comedy of bullying and cruelty.

                        there's a reason porridge is still shown, when so many of its contemporaries have been consigned to the memory dungeon.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by WOM View Post
                          Mentioned in the same breath is often Weird Science, which I didn't see in the '80s and have also never seen once in the intervening 35+ years.
                          Weird Science is (was?) one of my all time favourite films. Haven't seen it for years, but I know every word of it. It's very white, it's very 80s in lots of ways, but it does have a funny and clever female lead and a pretty strong "don't be a dick to people" message about it. The love interest at the end is so tacked on as to be a bit incongruous, but it's a film for teenage boys. That and FBDO are the least problematic of that run of John Hughes films.

                          Actually, there's a good New Yorker article by Molly Ringwald about John Hughes and his blind spots.

                          Comment


                            We've been watching episodes of the Norm Show at lunchtimes and while there are sometimes one or two lines that are funny, there are gags that reach for being gay as the punchline in a way that firmly date the show.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by hobbes View Post

                              Weird Science is (was?) one of my all time favourite films. Haven't seen it for years, but I know every word of it. It's very white, it's very 80s in lots of ways, but it does have a funny and clever female lead and a pretty strong "don't be a dick to people" message about it. The love interest at the end is so tacked on as to be a bit incongruous, but it's a film for teenage boys. That and FBDO are the least problematic of that run of John Hughes films.
                              For a long time I got Revenge of the Nerds and Weird Science confused in my head. I watched Revenge of the Nerds recently - if you want a problematic film, holy shit that's you're problematic film.

                              Comment

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