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RIP Norm Macdonald

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    #76
    Pete Davidson seems deeply troubled / bent on self-destruction, which is always depressing.

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      #77
      Sandler is quite talented, just a pretty considerable asshole.

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        #78
        Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
        All your examples aren't stand-ups. If I listed all the sketch performers and actors I like, there'd be a lot more women. Improv seems to be more popular among women getting into comedy than stand-up
        True, and I didn't mean to suggest any criticism for not mentioning females, or trans or nonbinary comics. My train of thought was that most of what we're appalled at is toxic male shit, which made me think how female comics are relatively untainted. There are of course lots of successful female standups now, but when thinking about which females I find funniest I ended up listing improv comics, some of whom imo are the funniest ever across genres and genders. I should've mentioned Kate McKinnon too.

        I don't think you have to be an asshole to be funny.
        Steven Wright isn't an asshole. Gary Gulman isn't an asshole, neither Pete Holmes or Ron Funches. Funches persona is a guy who really likes to be high, because he is a guy who likes to be high. I prefer that energy.
        Yeah, there have to be exceptions, it's just the nature of comedy to attract problematic people, for lack of a better word.

        I think SNL is better than that, but as you suggest, the best sketches are the ones that probably didn't appear to be that funny on paper. Like Cowbell, Get off the Shed or The Californians. It's all in the commitment and execution. I don't think the writing is bad so much as they've got to serve a pretty boring audience. If they could do all the weird shit that only the writers think is funny, I'd probably like it more, but it wouldn't be as popular or get laughs in the studio.

        I've noticed that YouTube is awash in videos that are just a series of people's favorites five-fifteen second clips from SNL sketches. That suggests that most sketches would probably be funnier if they were shorter and just focused on the best lines. But it would be much harder to do a live show changing every minute or two.

        Of course, a lot of the best SNL bits are the taped ones.
        Cowbell and Get off the Shed were never that funny to me. I never got the "everything Will Ferrell does is funny" thing. He seemed best at breaking up his colleagues, which must be hard, but I feel like he acquired an aura where audiences were laughing because it was him rather than whatever he was doing, like a class clown effect. The Californians is good, weirdly disjunct in a similar way to Pageant Talk. They've gotten a lot of mileage out of the game show format too.

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          #79
          Originally posted by Bruno View Post

          True, and I didn't mean to suggest any criticism for not mentioning females, or trans or nonbinary comics. My train of thought was that most of what we're appalled at is toxic male shit, which made me think how female comics are relatively untainted. There are of course lots of successful female standups now, but when thinking about which females I find funniest I ended up listing improv comics, some of whom imo are the funniest ever across genres and genders. I should've mentioned Kate McKinnon too.



          Yeah, there have to be exceptions, it's just the nature of comedy to attract problematic people, for lack of a better word.



          Cowbell and Get off the Shed were never that funny to me. I never got the "everything Will Ferrell does is funny" thing. He seemed best at breaking up his colleagues, which must be hard, but I feel like he acquired an aura where audiences were laughing because it was him rather than whatever he was doing, like a class clown effect. The Californians is good, weirdly disjunct in a similar way to Pageant Talk. They've gotten a lot of mileage out of the game show format too.
          I'm sad for you that you don't think Cowbell and Get Off the Shed are funny.*

          I suppose you don't love "I DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!!!!" either? That's unfortunate. I just find people losing their shit over trivial things to be inherently funny. Ergo, there's a lot of dark comedy to be had in airports.

          Most of the things Ferrell does are funny. Not all - that movie he made with Amy Poehler about putting a casino in a suburban living room was shockingly bad - but his hit rate is high and he was great on SNL. Because he's 100% committed to the bits and isn't afraid to fail. His SNL colleagues have commended him on his ability to let bombs roll off him and move on to the next thing without dwelling on it.

          But I agree that comedians are in trouble when they become so popular that their reputation precedes them and they laugh at everything. A number of stand-ups have pointed out that they have to go to very specific clubs to try out new materials because, at a lot of places, they'll get laughs just because they're famous. Steve Martin quit because of that, basically. He just had nowhere else to go with his stand-up.


          *Of course, Cowbell is more about Christopher Walken, one of the top five all time repeat SNL hosts. Other people could have done Will Ferrell's part in that, but only Walken could have played THE Bruce Dickinson, the cock of the walk.

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            #80
            Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
            I'm sad for you that you don't think Cowbell and Get Off the Shed are funny.*

            I suppose you don't love "I DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!!!!" either? That's unfortunate. I just find people losing their shit over trivial things to be inherently funny. Ergo, there's a lot of dark comedy to be had in airports.
            Well okay, they're not unfunny, but I wouldn't rank them all-time classics. I've always liked MOM THE MEATLOAF if that helps.

            Most of the things Ferrell does are funny. Not all - that movie he made with Amy Poehler about putting a casino in a suburban living room was shockingly bad - but his hit rate is high and he was great on SNL. Because he's 100% committed to the bits and isn't afraid to fail. His SNL colleagues have commended him on his ability to let bombs roll off him and move on to the next thing without dwelling on it.

            But I agree that comedians are in trouble when they become so popular that their reputation precedes them and they laugh at everything. A number of stand-ups have pointed out that they have to go to very specific clubs to try out new materials because, at a lot of places, they'll get laughs just because they're famous. Steve Martin quit because of that, basically. He just had nowhere else to go with his stand-up.
            That's why I never started standup, I was too worried about that happening.

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              #81
              "MOM! THE MEATLOAF" is the funniest part of that film.
              "Goddamn you! I almost nunchucked you. You don't even realize!"

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                #82
                Macdonald's deliberately bad roast of Bob Saget is a good example of his brand of meta humor

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QfsXUPghXk

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                  #83
                  Originally posted by Bruno View Post
                  Steve Martin quit because of that, basically. He just had nowhere else to go with his stand-up.
                  He also had a lot of other avenues to explore: actor, writer, playwright, musician, director...

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                    #84
                    Reed said that!

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                      #85
                      Yeah, Martin had started doing movies when he quit stand up, so at least he had money rolling in, but in the book he makes it clear that he just didn’t want to do it any more, regardless of his other projects.

                      A lot of stand ups are addicted to it and don’t give it up no matter how much money they have or other options. Seinfeld still tours. Judd Apatow has been doing stand up lately.

                      I’m sure that Martin been offered ungodly sums of money to resurrect the old standup show for MSG or the Staples Center, etc. Shit, in the 80s he could maybe have played the Rose Bowl. But it was done.

                      Of course, the success of his other projects means he doesn’t need that money. It’s like the Beatles in that way. Sure, they could have played some shows in the 70s for huge dollars, but why bother?

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                        #86
                        Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                        A lot of stand ups are addicted to it and don’t give it up no matter how much money they have or other options.
                        It is legitimately therapeutic I think. Certainly plenty of counseling courses include stand-up in their curriculum.

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                          #87
                          I don’t see how being disapproved of by a group of drunk strangers and fellow amateur comics would be therapeutic. That is, how I understand it, what open mics are like.

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                            #88
                            I think it's supposed to build self-confidence and assertiveness. But, having never done stand-up, I can't say for sure. Certainly acting, and other performative situations can aid self-assurance.

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                              #89
                              A couple of the young copywriters I've hired over the past few years have done amateur standup. By far and away, they're the best in presentations. So calm and easygoing and in command of the room.

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                                #90
                                Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                Of course, a lot of the best SNL bits are the taped ones.
                                Not too difficult because the cast are literally having to read lines off cue cards because they can't rehearse the material.

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                                  #91
                                  Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                  I don’t see how being disapproved of by a group of drunk strangers and fellow amateur comics would be therapeutic. That is, how I understand it, what open mics are like.
                                  You're going to the wrong open mics. Well, American ones.

                                  WOM is right. Having done stand-up for a couple of years, it was very easy to transfer that into MCing live events, doing presentations and delivering training. I'm literally just in the middle of doing a few talks to camera and the actual delivery is simple, it's remember to focus on the single point that's the tricky bit.

                                  But it's not just comedy that gives you those skills. A mate of mine was a street preacher before getting into standup - "people ignoring you or hating what you are saying was always extraordinarily good preparation for my act".

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                                    #92
                                    Macdonald and Stephen Merchant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUzB...l=I%27mnotNorm

                                    Macdonald seems to want to go straight towards racist and transphobic themes at every opportunity.
                                    Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 19-09-2021, 22:02.

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                                      #93
                                      Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
                                      I think it's supposed to build self-confidence and assertiveness. But, having never done stand-up, I can't say for sure. Certainly acting, and other performative situations can aid self-assurance.
                                      Yes. Acting definitely would be good prep for lots of things. But in stand up, you really have to rehearse in public and there are only so many opportunities. That sounds grueling.

                                      I think late night shows with actors flogging movies are popular because they’re good at pretending to be comfortable in conversation.

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                                        #94
                                        Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                        Macdonald seems to want to go straight towards racist and transphobic themes at every opportunity.
                                        Please tell me you can see all the crude / rough editing to make it look exactly that way.

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                                          #95
                                          There is a thing that always makes me nervous about "of its time" or "Doing it for laughs" defences. And it's that it usually refers to a piece of comedy that violates a fairly important rule of comedy. Don't punch down. If you don't want your comedy to have the shelf life of a chocolate eclair, do not punch down. Firstly it makes you look like a cunt at the time to anyone with a brain or a heart, but secondly the "humour" relies on the social attitudes of the day, that are most likely to shift radically over time, and that is, who is the current weak outgroup who is least able to hit back. That will change. I'm not sure if there would be a box set of Laurel and hardy films above my telly if every third joke was about the jews, or black people, or whatever was wildly popular in the 30's.

                                          That joke about the trans murder is as glaring an example as you could possibly see. It's just lazy as fuck. but if I have any advice for DM, it's stop bloody watching films from the 80's and 90's, particularly if you have any kind of fond memories of them. I've had to stop. I just can't take it any more. I'm afraid I'd sooner watch a romantic comedy from the 1950's, between a 60 year old man and his 25 year old wife, if I were in the hunt for laughs, than anything from those two decades. The degree to which so many of those movies are transparently the cinematic or televisual version of the bag of sweets to tempt you into the back of the van is alarming.

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                                            #96
                                            Ferris Bueller's Day Off still stands up.

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                                              #97
                                              I'm a big fan of John Hughes films, but I'm often caught off guard by the lines that would have made me roar as a teen but which I'm appalled by now.

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                                                #98
                                                Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                                Ferris Bueller's Day Off still stands up.
                                                I didn't think it was funny in 1992 when I was 14. But I must have understood very little of it.

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                                                  #99
                                                  Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post

                                                  I didn't think it was funny in 1992 when I was 14. But I must have understood very little of it.
                                                  Perhaps you weren't a depressed teenager at a US suburban high school in the 80s.

                                                  It's very white. And the timeline doesn't make sense. But otherwise, I don't think there's much that they couldn't put in a film now. Young people getting one over on their parents and asshole principal is timeless.

                                                  If The Breakfast Club were made now, Michael Hall's character would be Asian, Emilio Estevez's character would be Black, Judd Nelson's character would be Gay, and Ally Sheedy's character would be Latina or maybe Muslim.
                                                  Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 20-09-2021, 16:29.

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                                                    I think that may account for a lot of it!

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