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We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

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    #26
    We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

    I didn't think that of Hurt Locker. I thought it showed the conflict from the perspective of the Americans because it wasn't really about the war, it was about the bomb squad guys and what their jobs are like, their addiction to the adrenaline, etc.

    Yeah, it showed them being very suspicious of every local, but if you were in their situation, you'd be suspicious of every local too because you never know which one is going to try to blow you up. That's how that war is. That's part of the insurgent's strategy. That's why it's awful (among other reasons). The token nice kid had to be there just so the film could show that the characters weren't just racists.

    As for superhero films:
    There are tons in the pipeline. (http://www.superherohype.com/) Other than the upcoming Batman film, which should be excellent, most are going to follow the pattern of The Avengers or the recent Green Lantern - origin of hero, origin of major villain, threat to earth, hero stops threat, credits. It's a hard pattern to break. The Batman films break the pattern partially because the character is very different, and partially because of Warner's faith that Nolan and Bale could do it so well that the film could make money without appealing to kids. (Well, the Dark Knight films would appeal to kids, but their parents probably wouldn't want them to see them, especially the last one with The Joker).

    The new Spider-Man reboot should be interesting. Odd that they'd reboot a series that was so well liked and so soon after the other one, but this will tell a somewhat different version of the story. It will be more about Peter Parker's relationship with his dead father, etc, who barely got a mention in the Raimi series. And "the girl" will be Gwen Stacy instead of Mary Jane. Not sure what difference that really makes. Still, what makes Spider-Man Spider-Man is the swinging around New York bits, so it will mostly focus on that, I guess.

    There's going to be a new Superman effort with Henry Cavill in the lead. Not sure how that will go. The last one was ok, but really an imaginative flop in my view for lots of reasons. It was too in love with the Christopher Reeve/Donner films and stuck to that formula. It even had the same music. Those were good in their time, but to do Superman properly, they need a more interesting Lex Luthor like the one in the comics where he becomes President, etc. And they need to make Kal-El a bit more conflicted over his dual identities/adopted status, which relates directly to the Jewish origins of the character in the 30s. Smallville, the TV show, was actually way better at developing the characters because it covered all of that (along with a lot of tedious teenage shlock, and it went on for 10 years so got a bit encumbered by side plots, but it got the basics right).

    I thought Green Lantern was ok. I think it's something you either buy into or don't. The sequel will get all into Sinestro and his betrayal so that could be interesting, but it won't be ground-breaking.

    X-Men First Class will get a sequel.

    Apparently Marvel is thinking of trying again with Daredevil, and it should. Daredevil is one of Marvel's two or three best characters - albeit a bit derivative of Batman - and the film they made out of it was very weak. Poor casting, poor script.

    There have been a few attempts to get a Wonder Woman film or TV show off the ground. Joss Whedon was going to do it, and then they had a TV pilot either done or about to be done and the plug got pulled.

    Aquaman had a pilot too, with the title character played by the guy who played Green Arrow on Smallville and, oddly, not the guy who played Aquaman on Smallville. It was going to be a lot like Smallville. Didn't get picked up. I think there's some potential there for a film especially if they can do a lot of interesting underwater stuff. Aquaman gets a lot of shit on South Park and Family Guy, but he's actually a cool character who just has never been given much chance. The fact that Green Arrow, Cyborg, Black Canary, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, and the Flash appeared on Smallville suggest DC has no greater plans for them, because the writers were constantly asked if Bruce Wayne would ever appear on Smallville and they said no because DC didn't want to "dilute" or "interfere" with all the other Batman stuff they had going.

    A lot of films are based on comics but you wouldn't necessarily know that because they aren't promoted as such and don't have superheros. Wanted was very loosely based on Mark Millar's book, but bares little resemblance to it. The film is actually better, although nothing to write home about. He also did Kick-Ass, which is getting a film sequel.

    Red, about old assassins coming out of retirement, was pretty good. That was based on a graphic novel, I think. The Losers wasn't a very good film. That's actually a comic from the 50s that was redone more recently. There's lots of stuff like that.

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      #27
      We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

      Very informative! Thanks, Reed and thank you for the link too - that's pretty much exactly what I was after.

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        #28
        We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

        Finally got round to watching it yesterday after spending last week watching Iron Man 1 and 2 (fantastic) as well as Thor (dull by comparison).
        I'd seen Captain America at the cinema.

        Have to say, any 12A film that gets 'you mewling quim' into the script gets my vote. Tremendous fun all in all, and very amusing in places. Naturally most of the amusement comes from Tony Stark and The Hulk.
        Mark Ruffalo plays Banner brilliantly. Nervy, tense, always seemingly on the verge of getting upset. Superb casting.

        Hawkeye is a weird one isn't he? I mean, I watched Thor last week and scarcely recall him in it. It was just a cameo role according to what I read, so all the back story between Black Widow and himself was a bit lost on me. Aside from that, it was largely excellent.

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          #29
          We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

          Saw this yesterday and loved it.

          For someone whose memories of comics are largely stuck in the 1970s, the ideal Avengers movie would probably be a double headed chamber piece with the Vision and the Scarlet Witch discussing the impossibility of love in a cruel and godless universe. Directed by Ingmar Bergman.

          But, failing that, AA is pretty awesome.

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            #30
            We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

            I saw this on a plane yesterday (well yesterdayish). As someone who never read comics (well not these kind of comics anyway), I found it enjoyable but deeply confusing. I got the feeling that there were supposed to be loads of information I ought to know in advance in order for it t make any kind of sense.

            I know who the Hulk is, because I watched TV in the 70s. I know who Thor is because, well, people do don't they. I've heard of Captain America, but have no idea what he's supposed to be/do (and in fact this is still true). As for the Johansson and Downey Jr characters and the bloke with the arrows, I have no idea. Reading this thread it suggests that Johansson was called the Black Widow, but Downey? What's the black widow's power? Getting information from people?

            On a wider point, are these characters all supposed to be so well known that we don't need back stories? I don't think I ever knew anyone growing up who read Marvel or DC comics, and I guess I imagined I wasn't unusual in this. Or is the idea that the people who go to watch films like this, do already know what's going on? (which then gets back to the question of whether that is enough people to make it worthwhile? I mean obviously these films tend to be successful blockbusters, so I guess there is a market)

            I saw Green Lantern a while ago on another plane and thought it was bloody awful. But that's possibly because I think that actor from Two Guys and Pizza or whatever it was called, is absolutely crap.

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              #31
              We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

              ad hoc wrote: I saw this on a plane yesterday (well yesterdayish). As someone who never read comics (well not these kind of comics anyway), I found it enjoyable but deeply confusing. I got the feeling that there were supposed to be loads of information I ought to know in advance in order for it t make any kind of sense.

              I know who the Hulk is, because I watched TV in the 70s. I know who Thor is because, well, people do don't they. I've heard of Captain America, but have no idea what he's supposed to be/do (and in fact this is still true). As for the Johansson and Downey Jr characters and the bloke with the arrows, I have no idea. Reading this thread it suggests that Johansson was called the Black Widow, but Downey? What's the black widow's power? Getting information from people?

              On a wider point, are these characters all supposed to be so well known that we don't need back stories? I don't think I ever knew anyone growing up who read Marvel or DC comics, and I guess I imagined I wasn't unusual in this. Or is the idea that the people who go to watch films like this, do already know what's going on? (which then gets back to the question of whether that is enough people to make it worthwhile? I mean obviously these films tend to be successful blockbusters, so I guess there is a market)

              I saw Green Lantern a while ago on another plane and thought it was bloody awful. But that's possibly because I think that actor from Two Guys and Pizza or whatever it was called, is absolutely crap.
              You are Louis Theroux and I claim my ten credits.

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                #32
                We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                I don't get that reference either. (Well, I get the reference of the sentence structure, but not the rest)

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                  #33
                  We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                  Most of them got their own back story films (except for Johansson and the archer chap, who instead appeared vaguely inexplicably in Thor's back story film).

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                    #34
                    We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                    On a wider point, are these characters all supposed to be so well known that we don't need back stories? I don't think I ever knew anyone growing up who read Marvel or DC comics, and I guess I imagined I wasn't unusual in this. Or is the idea that the people who go to watch films like this, do already know what's going on?
                    In the case of this specific comic book movie, there was a whole series of largely very successful films about the backstories of most of the individual characters in the years leading up to its release. That was Marvel's entire business plan. So, yes, generally people watching it would be expected to know their backstories. Black Widow didn't get her own movie, but to the extent the backstory was relevant to the plot, it was revealed in Avengers Assemble.

                    hich then gets back to the question of whether that is enough people to make it worthwhile? I mean obviously these films tend to be successful blockbusters, so I guess there is a market
                    In nominal dollars, the Avengers movie is the third highest grossing movie of all time, so I'd say there is a market.

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                      #35
                      We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                      I thought Green Lantern was ok. I think it's something you either buy into or don't. The sequel will get all into Sinestro and his betrayal so that could be interesting, but it won't be ground-breaking.

                      It passed the time and was made with the customary high values that you get these days with films of that kind, but it was easy to feel sorry for a coffee table than have any sympathy for the lead character. Peter Sarsgaard's evil mutant character was far more interesting.

                      Avengers Assemble was bloody good fun and smart, yet suffered from simply chucking too much into the mix, an embarrassment of shiny, noisy riches that somehow stood in the way of any engrossing storytelling. Loads of stuff to entertain, quite a few sharp one-liners, set-pieces and what-have-you, but a jumble nonetheless. That said, like Captain America and X-Men, it benefitted from Marvel's almost stranglehold-like production control that stops such movies from being shamble-standard box-office shite and renders them quite entertaining exercises in entertainment.

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                        #36
                        We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                        One question (of the many) that occurred: How come when Banner went Hulk in the spaceship thingy, he just was all rage and no control and he tried to kill everyone, and when he was on the ground in the ending scene, he knew who his friends were and would only attack the bad guys?

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                          #37
                          We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                          Having just seen this as well, the answer to that question is that in the former he changed against his will, in the latter, he chose to change.

                          (Oddly, I wasn't convinced by this either (and have seen loads of other complains on this as well) but Whedon says this was always the intention and didn't seem to think it clunky in the director's commentary.)

                          Still liked the movie though. And I have generally always hated the Marvel Universe. Kind of hope Ruffalo would be given the chance to carry a Hulk movie alone.

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                            #38
                            We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                            Well, Iron Man 3 looks set to be based on the Extremis graphic novel and the new Captain America film is "The Winter Soldier" so both look promising, but they need to up Cap's man out of time and man with incorruptible morals feel and keep emphasising his unwavering bravery, leadership skills etc. more as the first film couldn't do that very much given that it was a background film.

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                              #39
                              We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                              Haven't seen this, but I like that when I look at the list of forums on the main page, when this is at the top of Film & TV it appears as "Re: We All Think 'Avengers Ass"

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                                #40
                                We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                Scarlett Johansson certainly was impressive.

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                                  #41
                                  We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                  Finally caught up with this on DVD. Good stuff, impressively cohesive given that there were so many superhero protagonists, could have maybe done with a twist at the end such as Tony Stark remaining trapped in the alternate dimension. A floating aircraft carrier held aloft by VTOL turbines, though... where does that Joss Whedon get his ideas from?

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                                    #42
                                    We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                    We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                    No.

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                                      #43
                                      We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                      I enjoyed it in the cinema last year. I caught up with the back story by watching Thor and Captain America on DVD first. I think that helped.

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                                        #44
                                        We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                        Once it's sufficiently awesome to kill a Christmas Eve void, I'll be happy. That said, even Scarlett Johansson in a catsuit might wear thin after half a hour if it's no better than those awful Hulk films.

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                                          #45
                                          We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                          Mumpo wrote: Finally caught up with this on DVD. Good stuff, impressively cohesive given that there were so many superhero protagonists, could have maybe done with a twist at the end such as Tony Stark remaining trapped in the alternate dimension. A floating aircraft carrier held aloft by VTOL turbines, though... where does that Joss Whedon get his ideas from?
                                          Strange Tales #135.

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                                            #46
                                            We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                            Nah, 'tis bobbins - Iron Man and Hulk work well together, but Thor's so wooden he's maple, and the others might as well not have shown up, if only they'd given Samuel L Jackson some decent lines!

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                                              #47
                                              We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                              Just watched it again - on telly, this time.

                                              It's fantastic ...and on more than one level.

                                              Firstly, considering the genre, it's actually a masterpiece of direction. Little things like the camera positioned inside the car that gets rolled and its passenger compartment crushed - that may not be entirely new, but it adds a little bit of humanity to all the ...superhumanity.

                                              Secondly, given that feature films are - relative to the Marvel universe - a short-form medium, they did a pretty good job of weaving the relationships, even if they inevitably mangled some of the characters' personal storylines.

                                              My only worry - well, there's two, actually. The immediate one is that, with all the characters they include in the little 'easter egg' epilogues - Thanos, The Collector, Ultron and others - they're going to find it progressively harder to hold our attentions and keep things coherent. The multiple owners of rights to the Marvel universe characters - Disney, Fox and Sony being the main ones - need to negotiate a collaboration - and fast - if this cohesiveness is going to happen. Allegedly talks have been going on for a while now (and the emergence of Quicksilver and The Scarlet Witch may force their hands) but there may need to be a bit of backtracking yet before we see mutants and superheroes in the same film.

                                              The other big thing for me is the way 'Guardians Of The Galaxy' was presented pretty much as a kiddy comedy, when it should really be the fulcrum of any Marvel universe filmic attempt, what with Drax, Groot, Gamora and others being among the mythic cast.

                                              ...And I'm not even a Marvel obssessive! No, really!

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                                                #48
                                                We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                                I'm not aware of any plan to crossover with mutants and superheroes. Heroes and Guardians looks a more likely prospect.

                                                Diable Rouge wrote: if only they'd given Samuel L Jackson some decent lines!
                                                So he could completely ham them up beyond all comprehension, along with shouting at least one "Hell, no!" in front of them.

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                                                  #49
                                                  We all think 'Avengers Assemble' is awesome, yes?

                                                  Iron Man was in the rebooted GotG comic, on a break from the Avengers.

                                                  The current representative of the Avengers in the Guardians, is Venom. Which is a bit weird.

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