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Presenters who mispronounce foreign names

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    Presenters who mispronounce foreign names

    Just been watching some BBC three-part doc about Vienna and the Hapsburgs, presented by Simon Sebag-Montefiore. What a dick the man is.

    The documentary is in general ok - the kind of lightweight, insight-free, “history as colourful anecdotes about the rich and powerful” that Lucy Worsley and others like her churn out competently - mildly entertaining and informative and one knows not to expect anything better.

    But it really winds me up no end that SSM can’t be arsed to make even a token effort to pronounce the German names correctly. The main one was Wallenstein (and yeah I know the dude’s name was originally Czech and was “germanified” into its better known version). SSM kept saying it with the opening sounds like the “wa” in the English word “want”. I mean how fucking superciliously ignorant is that? It’s not as if the correct pronunciation uses anything outside our English language sound set. Or as if it’s peripheral to a series about Vienna that some names are German. Or as if SSM brings anything like historical expertise to what is a simple “talk to camera” job* that he is apparently, in a quintessentially English way, too lazy or complacent to bother learning correct pronunciations for.

    Rant over.

    * tbf, maybe he wrote the script rather than just delivering it, I don’t know. But if he did, then he is also responsible for its various naff inanities, such as, “on the Danube - between the Black Forest and the Black Sea!”
    Last edited by Evariste Euler Gauss; 21-10-2020, 15:34.

    #2
    Names like Epstein you mean?

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      #3
      In fairness, I couldn't pronounce Sebag-Montefiore, so he's probably used to names being pronounced incorrectly.

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        #4
        Did a bit of googling in response to that comment (edit - Guy’s innuendo comment I mean) but didn’t find anything concrete. I did find other stuff that tends to confirm the man is a bit of a dick.

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          #5
          It's even worse when it's sport commentators doing it. It's your bloody job to talk about these people, why not do a tiny amount of research and do it properly?

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            #6
            I mean, for Fuchs' sake.

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              #7
              Yeah, Kuntz.

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                #8
                Ooh Ooh

                One if those very rare occasions on which I get a Guy reference

                https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/20/jerem...name-11186885/

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Toby Gymshorts View Post
                  It's even worse when it's sport commentators doing it. It's your bloody job to talk about these people, why not do a tiny amount of research and do it properly?
                  George Hamilton is noted for this, perhaps to the point of pedantry, and is the only one I've heard going the full oo in Lindeloof (given the diacritic doesn't display).
                  Last edited by Diable Rouge; 21-10-2020, 16:38.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post

                    George Hamilton is noted for this, perhaps to the point of pedantry, and is the only one I've heard going the full oo in Lindeloof (given the diacritic doesn't display).
                    Pity he has no powers of observation or knowledge of the basic laws of the game. At least he's better than Siobhan Madigan ( n.b how I also managed to fit in a difficult to pronounce name for the Sasnaigh )

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                      #11
                      The opening post reminds me of weird bit of continuity announcing that I heard on BBC 4. Remember the Kenneth Brannagh series of Wallander films? Well, as they were made in English with an English cast, someone took the bizarre decision to have the main name pronounced as if it were an English one. One of the episodes of this series ran with a documentary directly after about the Wallander books. The makers of this show opted to used the Swedish (or: correct) pronunciation for their programme. Leading to this from the continuity person:-
                      "WALL-ander returns at the same time next Friday.
                      "Next on BBC Four: In Search of Kurt val-AN-der"

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                        #12
                        I remember that, Janik. The side-by-side juxtaposition was bizarre.

                        IIRC, the Branagh Wallander had that internal inconsistency where the dialogue is in English but whenever the characters look at written material it is in Swedish. The same thing came up in an old episode of Van der Valk I watched recently and it is always distracting.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                          Ooh Ooh

                          One if those very rare occasions on which I get a Guy reference

                          https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/20/jerem...name-11186885/
                          I would have guessed Epp-stine. My recollection is that, in German words with “ei” or “ie” you pronounce the second letter.

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                            #14
                            ON LANGUAGE; STINE OR STEEN? https://nyti.ms/29QsDxS

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                              #15
                              Helpful.
                              That article also mentions Taliaferro sometimes, but not always, being pronounced Tolliver. There is (or was, at least) a Taliaferro Hall at W&M pronounced Tolliver. I never understood that. Why not just change the spelling?

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                                #16
                                Speaking of announcers missing names. I forget who it was, but there was at least one hockey announcer who insisted Patrick Roy’s last name was pronounced Rue-ahh.

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                                  #17
                                  If that article is correct then, ironically, pronouncing Epstein's name as "Ep-stine" (as I instinctively do) is actually making it less Jewish.

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                                    #18
                                    This guy was a "Tolliver"



                                    I take Safire's point that it is the US version of Cholmondeley/Chumley

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                                      #19
                                      In Australia, the revered late football broadcaster Les Murray (born Laszlo Urge in Hungary) who spoke perfect English used to take great pleasure in pronouncing the most complex of European football team and player names correctly but couldn't get 'Falkirk' right, pronouncing the 'Fal' like 'Mal'. I had a lot of time for Les, but that used to give me the screaming irrits.

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                                        #20
                                        Ironically read in Hungarian the first syllable of Falkirk would be pronounced as it should be

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                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                                          Ironically read in Hungarian the first syllable of Falkirk would be pronounced as it should be
                                          So the bugger might have been intentionally winding up the Scottish viewers? Nasty...

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                                            #22
                                            Our son's name, which is not rare, is pronounced differently in German, English and Spanish; the vowel sounds change in all three; syllable emphasis changes in Spanish. I say this merely to remind people that pronunciation isn't easy. I would also add that those of us who have learned foreign languages as adults know that for various reasons certain sounds and combinations (for example, consonant clusters for Spanish speakers or the trilled Spanish r for most native English speakers) are very difficult to master.

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                                              #23
                                              Janik- report to my office at 0900. Your punishment will be to watch Branagh in all 3 Billy plays

                                              As a Wallander fan agreed that the English language adaptation is a bit rum. The Swedish-German ones are far better.

                                              Veteran commentators George Hamilton, Alan Green and I all attended the same school. But rest assured there are no plans for a commentary stint at Walsall or Burton, with Staffordshire yokels gurning that I sound like Reeves or Mortimer ...

                                              A Lieutenant Sebag Montefiore features in Spike Milligan's WW2 memoirs. At some point a fellow squaddie urinates on him
                                              Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 22-10-2020, 06:13.

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                                                #24
                                                Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                                This guy was a "Tolliver"



                                                I take Safire's point that it is the US version of Cholmondeley/Chumley
                                                See also Magdalene College, Cambridge

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                                                  #25
                                                  In my favourite Walsall pub there's a song on the jukebox about the local area.

                                                  instant Caldmore gonna get ya

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