The new Dune movie.

[Patrick Thistle]

I think it's in Children of Dune because then it's a plotline in God Emperor where Leto II has a string of them but keeps having to deal with them rebelling against him.

[BallochSonsFan]

Doesn’t he come back as a clone, or am I thinking of somebody else?

Duncan comes back as a ghola. Cant remember if it's late in Messiah or if its early in Children of Dune. The ghola Duncan is called Hayt until they find a way of restoring ghola memories.

[BallochSonsFan]

Again, I don't know the nuances of these stories so am simply working with the plotline that unfolds in the film. But one thing the young woman (forgot her name) says to him when they meet is that she does not believe Paul is the chosen one. It seems to me that he could prove that he has some power and he could avoid a fight to the death,

There is no yielding in Fremen culture. All fights are fights to the death. In the book, Jamis has been dishonoured because Paul was able to disarm him so easily before hiding in the rocks. Jamis challenges Paul to try and regain his honour with his fellow tribesmen.

Interesting to know how non-book readers felt about Hawat and the whole mentat thing. Not explained at all in the film. Or Gurney's character development? Or the Baron and Pitor DeVries (the Harkonnen twisted mentat)? Or Dr Yueh and why his betrayal of the Atreides is so shocking as Suk school doctors are supposed to be incorruptible?

I dont want to be too hard on the film as it covered the basics. But so much of the world building, character building and plot building was missing. The Dune saga should really have been HBO's next big show. It could, and should, have been the next Game of Thrones, particularly in the way that it should be character and plot driven.

[BallochSonsFan]

One question for those of you who are immersed in the books. I don't understand during the fight scene that basically ends the movie why Paul doesn't use "the voice" to convince the other guy not to fight. Paul has all of these voices telling him not to get blood on his hands, he has these dreams about that knife causing problems, and he has this kind of "jedi mind trick" power, so why not use it then? Is there anything more in the book about this fight. Logically the scene doesn't make sense, but, of course, logical plot sequences tend to be suspended for sci fi films.

Book explanation:

Jamis invokes the right of silence. Stilgar essentially threatens to have one of the Fremen kill Jessica if either of them tries to use the voice. Mainly Jessica though, because by that point nobody other than Mohaim and Jessica know that Paul has been trained in the voice. And in the book it's actually Paul that Jamis challenges and not Jessica. He challenges Paul because Paul disarmed him before running and hiding in the rocks (at which point Chani finds him and points a maula pistol at him)

Film explanation:

Meh, it'll be fine. Here's another shot of Paul looking all broody and Chani looking like she's appearing in a Dior commercial.

[Patrick Thistle]

[gt3]

Watched it at the weekend, have never read the book.

The set pieces were very watchable. Overall enjoyed it. But one thing that bugged me, was just like Tenet, there were times I had no idea what anyone was saying...

[Patrick Thistle]

Tbh, the whole 'hero has to survive a fight to the death' is a cliché. I don't think the film would have lost much without it.

[danielmak]

Well, firstly Paul isn't adept in using the voice yet. (Although later in the books he uses the voice to rally the Fremen to his cause.) Secondly, how would the other Fremen react to Paul "cheating"?

Again, I don't know the nuances of these stories so am simply working with the plotline that unfolds in the film. But one thing the young woman (forgot her name) says to him when they meet is that she does not believe Paul is the chosen one. It seems to me that he could prove that he has some power and he could avoid a fight to the death,

[Patrick Thistle]

Well, firstly Paul isn't adept in using the voice yet. (Although later in the books he uses the voice to rally the Fremen to his cause.) Secondly, how would the other Fremen react to Paul "cheating"?

In the book, Paul bans fights to the death as part of his changes to the Fremen honour code, which he can do as the Fremen mahdi. He manufactures a way for Fremen leaders to submit without losing face by declaring them his voice in his absence. "When he speaks, Muad'Dib speaks."

[danielmak]

One question for those of you who are immersed in the books. I don't understand during the fight scene that basically ends the movie why Paul doesn't use "the voice" to convince the other guy not to fight. Paul has all of these voices telling him not to get blood on his hands, he has these dreams about that knife causing problems, and he has this kind of "jedi mind trick" power, so why not use it then? Is there anything more in the book about this fight. Logically the scene doesn't make sense, but, of course, logical plot sequences tend to be suspended for sci fi films.

[Ray de Galles]

I've never read any of the books and never saw the Lynch version. I really liked it. Saw it in the theater and there were a lot of moments where I was glad I had that big screen and the sound rather than just watching it on my TV at home. Villenueve definitely tells a story his way without trying to call attention to itself and with not much crowd-pleasing humor. It really takes itself pretty seriously, possibly getting close to pretentious. I thought the final bit dragged a little and I knew the movie was reaching the ending but still thought "this is it?" Still, the worm did not disappoint, and I thought the cast was great. Also the music--it definitely helped create the mood of the movie and seemed to fit. It was nice that it wasn't some soaring string orchestra.

I'd agree with all of the above (I also have no experience of the story from the book or previously filmed versions ) except for the part about the ending dragging or being underwhelming. I knew this was part one and was happy with where and how they paused the story, though did think there were a few previous points where it was going to be the end.

It absolutely has to be seen on a (big) cinema screen with a good sound system.

[Ray de Galles]

They greenlit Part 2 a couple of weeks ago, it's due out October 2023.

[danielmak]

Like Inca, I haven't read any of the books and I did not see Lynch's film. I watched the trailer in this thread, it felt a lot like Blade Runner 2049, so I wanted to see the film. The soundtrack and cinematography was a lot like 2049, which is neither good nor bad. I watched at home via HBO Max on a decent sized TV (though not as large as I would like but I'm not going to win that battle). I thought it was good. I might watch again in a few weeks to see what I missed, but I'll look forward to part 2. It would suck if a part 2 was not made.

[Levin]

I don't think you get to be that long, that languid and end in the middle of a book.

[Patrick Thistle]

I stayed off this thread when people started posting reviews. I saw it tonight.

I felt it got lots right. The sheer scale of the Spacing Guild carrier ships. The post-technology technology. The centuries of tradition. There was more exposition than you get in the book, but it was sensitively done. Most stuff isn't explained in any depth in the book really. You have to read Princess Imrulan's epilogue to get a lot of explanations. The changes made were necessary to make the movie work. I felt all the casting choices were pretty good. And it split the story at the best possible point.

I agree that people who haven't read the books might find it a struggle. But, well, forget those people. This film felt like it was made for me and my mate who I went with who also likes talking about Dune. The most important thing (for me) is that they didn't totally fuck it up to turn it into a people pleaser. I reckon if you went and paid attention you would know what was going on and it might pique your interest to find out more. And in a way, that's the main attraction of Dune - a glimpse into part of a big story you don't fully understand. I think Villeneuve got that right.

My one note of criticism would be the score. Hans Zimmer is the 2020 version of Danny Elfman or Vangelis - he has one way of approaching a score and by golly he's going to Hans Zimmer the fuck out of it. And the music blasted out throughout. There was almost no other noises in the film at all. What do the spaceships sound like...? [ZIMMERBLAST] What's going on in the battle [ZIMMERBLAST!!] How does shai-halud greet the sunlight when it surfaces? [ZIMMERBLAST!!!]

[Moonlight Shadow]

My turn on Thursday, looking forward to it as Arrival and BR2049 delivered big time for me...and confirmed today that part two will be made, October 2023...a long wait

[Hot Pepsi]

Eternals looks unnecessary. I'll probably just wait to see it on Disney+. I'm psyched about Emo Batman, though. That will be good.

They need to get people into the theaters and squeeze as much money out of them as they can, so all the ads. There's also a back-up of big films that are coming in the next year and they need to flog those now.

I would like to see Dune on the big screen, but had a fairly unpleasant experience seeing Bond in the theater - the first time I've been in 18 months. Almost nobody was wearing a mask, too many people were making noise and/or blocking the projection from time to time. It's like people have forgotten how to behave at the movies. I liked the reclining chairs they installed, but I have one of those in my living room.



Anyway, I listened to The Big Picture pod on Dune and they all think there's a 99.999999999999% chance the rest of the series is made. There's also a HBO+ prequel show planned.

I think it strikes a good balance between explaining enough backstory so people can understand it but not so much that it drags or lasts four hours.

But I have read it so some of the things that weren't explained made sense to me and might not make sense to someone coming in cold.

Still, I think it could have maybe spent just a few more seconds explaining a few things.

Like it could have maybe identified those guys in the helmets as the Spacing Guild (at least, I think that's who that was). Lynch's film had the big monster in the tank, which is how it is in the book, as I recall, but that doesn't do much to drive the plot of the first story so it just felt a bit extraneous.

It probably should have taken a moment or two to explain who the mentats were and why this civilization doesn't use computers. We just see that bit where Thufir Hawat's eyes roll back and he figures out something important and tells Leto. But I don't recall if the prohibition on "thinking machines" is ever mentioned. That might help. But it was fairly consistent about the lack of obvious computers. Note how the controls on the dragonfly ship - which was very cool - had analog displays.

It also could have taken a few more moments to explain how those personal shields work such that projectile weapons don't work in ground combat, thus the big fight scene was all with knives and swords.

Perhaps it's all just setting up for the extended director's' cut on DVD/streaming.

I suspect that will be more and more common. It's just very hard to get people to sit in a theater for three or four hours straight and it doesn't make business sense for the theater. But for these popular genre films, there's definitely an audience who wants to see the fullest version possible and will be happy to watch a long version at home where they can take breaks or watch it over several sittings. So it makes sense for them to plan and shoot the longer version as the "definitive" version, since over time, it will be viewed at home more than on big screens.

[Incandenza]

I've never read any of the books and never saw the Lynch version. I really liked it. Saw it in the theater and there were a lot of moments where I was glad I had that big screen and the sound rather than just watching it on my TV at home. Villenueve definitely tells a story his way without trying to call attention to itself and with not much crowd-pleasing humor. It really takes itself pretty seriously, possibly getting close to pretentious. I thought the final bit dragged a little and I knew the movie was reaching the ending but still thought "this is it?" Still, the worm did not disappoint, and I thought the cast was great. Also the music--it definitely helped create the mood of the movie and seemed to fit. It was nice that it wasn't some soaring string orchestra.

Also, my theater was packed for a 9pm screening on a Monday night. I was pretty surprised when I was looking to buy tickets that most of the seats were taken. I thought that might have been the theater just not wanting to sell all seats, but it was a full theater.

Finally, nothing about the movie itself, but the experience: 30 minutes of trailers/commercials. Jesus Christ. Eternals looks bad. Like really bad. And there's a new Batman? I might actually be interested in seeing the new Matrix. But good lord, AMC. We already bought tickets to see the movie. You don't need to show us ads about how great AMC theaters are. Makes me miss the Arclight (like 3 trailers tops, no ads).

[Hot Pepsi]

I really liked it but it’s unsatisfying without part two.

I like the cast. It sounds and looks amazing. I may go see it in a theater later.

I agree that it’s light on backstory and secondary character development, but I think that was necessary in order to focus the limited time, even with a sequel, on Paul and Jessica.

Novels and film are different media.

It’s doing pretty well, all things considered.

https://deadline.com/2021/10/dune-we...ce-1234860683/

[RobW]

I watched it this afternoon and rather wished I'd spent my time laughing at the football at Old Trafford. I'm very suspicious of 5 star reviews at the best of times, and thought the latest adaptation perfectly adequate, 3 star at best. I only read the first book last year and enjoyed it immensely, and agree with the post above regarding no explanation of mentats etc. It's a solid piece of work, but Villeneuve, like Nolan seems be a critics darling

[BallochSonsFan]

It isnt a dumpster fire of flaming garbage, but it's not great.

I've read the books. Even the terrible Brian Herbert ones. I've listened to the audiobooks (they're really well done). I've seen the Lynch version. I've even watched the SciFi Channel efforts - terrible acting and effects but a surprisingly decent stab at telling the story.

One big problem with this Dune movie is that it focuses on the wrong things. It gives significance to things that either don't happen in the book or that shouldn't be significant. It does a poor job of establishing the story lore. It does an even worse job with character development. If you've read the books then you know who characters are and why things happen but watching the movie without that existing knowledge would be a bit harder. Thufir is a great example - no explanation of what a mentat is and the casting in the movie is terrible. He's no more a master of spies and assassins than I am. The whole Yueh story just doesnt happen until the moment where it happens full on. In the books we get a brilliant build up showing Yueah torturing himself over his ultimate course of actions. but in the movie it just happens from nowhere. I think they've got the pacing of the film wrong. Maybe it should have been 3 hours - that would have hurt its chances at the box office but it would have given the director the extra half hour needed to properly set up plot and characters. I also found technical aspects of the film poor. Maybe its because I didnt see it at an IMAX theatre (was the same cinema I worked in 21 years ago) but at times it looks really dark and not in an atmospheric, menacing kind of way. Just dark. Arakeen looks absolutely terrible.

Its worth watching if you've nothing else to do or are a fan of the novels and want to see exactly how they've treated the source material. The 2nd part potentially helps with some of the criticisms I've got of the first, although there's a whole new set of characters, lore and plot for the film to handle badly. I'm not convinced that we'll get the 2nd part of the story though. It's going to depend on whether or not the film is a box office success and despite the gushing reviews for the film, I think it'll split audiences hugely. Folk who love it seem to really love it, but I wonder if thats in part down to a sense of loyalty to the idea of Dune rather than this film's execution of it?

[danielmak]

There is a paywall that is annoying to navigate.

Sometimes private browsing works, but pasting into here always works although if you hover over text the site asks you if you want to delete, which can be a pain to navigate.
https://www.printfriendly.com/

[Patrick Thistle]

Very long article in the New York Times, with the writer in setting herself into the article a bit too much, but still, some interesting details about the film making process.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/13/m...illeneuve.html

There is a paywall that is annoying to navigate.

[Patrick Thistle]

No baliset solos from Gurney in this version.

https://screenrant.com/dune-denis-vi...omparison/amp/

Might be a blessing.

[Moonlight Shadow]

Lots of stellar reviews...