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The new Dune movie.

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  • hobbes
    replied
    So, finally got around to watching this at the cinema yesterday. I bloody loved it. It was beautiful to look at, sounded great, I found the pacing very well done.
    But by golly, had I not read the book I'd have had no idea what was going on. Without having a full grasp and understanding of the text, it would have been the equivalent of watching an abstract foreign film without any subtitles. So a love letter to people who know the story, a baffling 150 minutes of eye candy for everyone else.

    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
    I read the Foundation trilogy ages ago and am really not arsed about it. Never read Wheel of Time but I know 3 people who are massive nerds for it and so I have heard a lot about the content of the books. None of it has persuaded me to give them a go. I've read the Expanse books and like them. I've got a couple of series on blu-ray but not got round to watching them.
    I haven't read the Foundation books but I found the show to be a very decent and diverting hour a week. Well worth my time.
    Watched the first 3 wheel of time eps (having come in completely cold to it and not really liking the whole sword of dobber genre at all.) It was fine. It certainly wasn't any more annoying that Game of Thrones, but then I gave that up midway through season 2. Both were too dry and dour. It's certainly no "The Witcher" which has a nice background levity to it.

    The Expanse however, is an absolute masterpiece of television. The best Sci Fi show since the first 3 seasons of Battlestar Galactica. Season 1 starts slowly but from about episode 5 it just flies.

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  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    I read the Foundation trilogy ages ago and am really not arsed about it. Never read Wheel of Time but I know 3 people who are massive nerds for it and so I have heard a lot about the content of the books. None of it has persuaded me to give them a go. I've read the Expanse books and like them. I've got a couple of series on blu-ray but not got round to watching them.

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  • Hot Pepsi
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
    It could be turned into some kind of space fantasy epic war series ... but that isn't really Dune.
    We have a few books-turned-into-shows going now like Foundation and Wheel of Time, which I just started. They're kinda hard to get into.
    The Expanse is awesome, but I had to watch the first few episodes a few times to understand what was going on. Then I read the books and that helped.

    I suspect Dune will have an extended edition at some point that fills in some of the details that are just glanced over in the original. That's fine.

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  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    It could be turned into some kind of space fantasy epic war series ... but that isn't really Dune.

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  • Hot Pepsi
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
    There was a series a little while back. It wasn't a huge hit but it might mean the rights are hard to get.

    However much the film can't capture the depth of the book, I'm not sure serialising the book would work either.
    Yeah, I'm not sure a broad audience is interested in all the back story, etc, either.

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  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    There was a series a little while back. It wasn't a huge hit but it might mean the rights are hard to get.

    However much the film can't capture the depth of the book, I'm not sure serialising the book would work either.

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  • Hot Pepsi
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post

    My feeling is I know all that stuff and don't need it explained and - very selfishly - I don't care if other people who have never read the books didn't get all the details.

    This probably makes me a bad person.
    I think if they were starting the project today, it would be an HBO show. But even a few years ago, they couldn't have gotten the director or many of the stars they got to do a series.

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  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    Originally posted by BallochSonsFan View Post

    Checked wiki and they reckon it is Messiah, but he's an important character in Children because of his relationship with Alia.
    It's a long time since I read the sequels. Wiki probably has it right.

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  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    Originally posted by BallochSonsFan View Post

    Interesting to know how non-book readers felt about Hawat and the whole mentat thing. Not explained at all in the film. Or Gurney's character development? Or the Baron and Pitor DeVries (the Harkonnen twisted mentat)? Or Dr Yueh and why his betrayal of the Atreides is so shocking as Suk school doctors are supposed to be incorruptible?

    I dont want to be too hard on the film as it covered the basics. But so much of the world building, character building and plot building was missing. The Dune saga should really have been HBO's next big show. It could, and should, have been the next Game of Thrones, particularly in the way that it should be character and plot driven.
    My feeling is I know all that stuff and don't need it explained and - very selfishly - I don't care if other people who have never read the books didn't get all the details.

    This probably makes me a bad person.

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  • BallochSonsFan
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
    I think it's in Children of Dune because then it's a plotline in God Emperor where Leto II has a string of them but keeps having to deal with them rebelling against him.
    Checked wiki and they reckon it is Messiah, but he's an important character in Children because of his relationship with Alia.

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  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    I think it's in Children of Dune because then it's a plotline in God Emperor where Leto II has a string of them but keeps having to deal with them rebelling against him.

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  • BallochSonsFan
    replied
    Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
    Doesn’t he come back as a clone, or am I thinking of somebody else?
    Duncan comes back as a ghola. Cant remember if it's late in Messiah or if its early in Children of Dune. The ghola Duncan is called Hayt until they find a way of restoring ghola memories.

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  • BallochSonsFan
    replied
    Originally posted by danielmak View Post

    Again, I don't know the nuances of these stories so am simply working with the plotline that unfolds in the film. But one thing the young woman (forgot her name) says to him when they meet is that she does not believe Paul is the chosen one. It seems to me that he could prove that he has some power and he could avoid a fight to the death,
    There is no yielding in Fremen culture. All fights are fights to the death. In the book, Jamis has been dishonoured because Paul was able to disarm him so easily before hiding in the rocks. Jamis challenges Paul to try and regain his honour with his fellow tribesmen.

    Interesting to know how non-book readers felt about Hawat and the whole mentat thing. Not explained at all in the film. Or Gurney's character development? Or the Baron and Pitor DeVries (the Harkonnen twisted mentat)? Or Dr Yueh and why his betrayal of the Atreides is so shocking as Suk school doctors are supposed to be incorruptible?

    I dont want to be too hard on the film as it covered the basics. But so much of the world building, character building and plot building was missing. The Dune saga should really have been HBO's next big show. It could, and should, have been the next Game of Thrones, particularly in the way that it should be character and plot driven.

    Leave a comment:


  • BallochSonsFan
    replied
    Originally posted by danielmak View Post
    One question for those of you who are immersed in the books. I don't understand during the fight scene that basically ends the movie why Paul doesn't use "the voice" to convince the other guy not to fight. Paul has all of these voices telling him not to get blood on his hands, he has these dreams about that knife causing problems, and he has this kind of "jedi mind trick" power, so why not use it then? Is there anything more in the book about this fight. Logically the scene doesn't make sense, but, of course, logical plot sequences tend to be suspended for sci fi films.
    Book explanation:

    Jamis invokes the right of silence. Stilgar essentially threatens to have one of the Fremen kill Jessica if either of them tries to use the voice. Mainly Jessica though, because by that point nobody other than Mohaim and Jessica know that Paul has been trained in the voice. And in the book it's actually Paul that Jamis challenges and not Jessica. He challenges Paul because Paul disarmed him before running and hiding in the rocks (at which point Chani finds him and points a maula pistol at him)

    Film explanation:

    Meh, it'll be fine. Here's another shot of Paul looking all broody and Chani looking like she's appearing in a Dior commercial.
    Last edited by BallochSonsFan; 19-11-2021, 16:42.

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  • Patrick Thistle
    replied

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  • gt3
    replied
    Watched it at the weekend, have never read the book.

    The set pieces were very watchable. Overall enjoyed it. But one thing that bugged me, was just like Tenet, there were times I had no idea what anyone was saying...

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  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    Tbh, the whole 'hero has to survive a fight to the death' is a cliché. I don't think the film would have lost much without it.

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  • danielmak
    replied
    Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
    Well, firstly Paul isn't adept in using the voice yet. (Although later in the books he uses the voice to rally the Fremen to his cause.) Secondly, how would the other Fremen react to Paul "cheating"?
    Again, I don't know the nuances of these stories so am simply working with the plotline that unfolds in the film. But one thing the young woman (forgot her name) says to him when they meet is that she does not believe Paul is the chosen one. It seems to me that he could prove that he has some power and he could avoid a fight to the death,

    Leave a comment:


  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    Well, firstly Paul isn't adept in using the voice yet. (Although later in the books he uses the voice to rally the Fremen to his cause.) Secondly, how would the other Fremen react to Paul "cheating"?

    In the book, Paul bans fights to the death as part of his changes to the Fremen honour code, which he can do as the Fremen mahdi. He manufactures a way for Fremen leaders to submit without losing face by declaring them his voice in his absence. "When he speaks, Muad'Dib speaks."

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  • danielmak
    replied
    One question for those of you who are immersed in the books. I don't understand during the fight scene that basically ends the movie why Paul doesn't use "the voice" to convince the other guy not to fight. Paul has all of these voices telling him not to get blood on his hands, he has these dreams about that knife causing problems, and he has this kind of "jedi mind trick" power, so why not use it then? Is there anything more in the book about this fight. Logically the scene doesn't make sense, but, of course, logical plot sequences tend to be suspended for sci fi films.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    Originally posted by Incandenza View Post
    I've never read any of the books and never saw the Lynch version. I really liked it. Saw it in the theater and there were a lot of moments where I was glad I had that big screen and the sound rather than just watching it on my TV at home. Villenueve definitely tells a story his way without trying to call attention to itself and with not much crowd-pleasing humor. It really takes itself pretty seriously, possibly getting close to pretentious. I thought the final bit dragged a little and I knew the movie was reaching the ending but still thought "this is it?" Still, the worm did not disappoint, and I thought the cast was great. Also the music--it definitely helped create the mood of the movie and seemed to fit. It was nice that it wasn't some soaring string orchestra.
    I'd agree with all of the above (I also have no experience of the story from the book or previously filmed versions ) except for the part about the ending dragging or being underwhelming. I knew this was part one and was happy with where and how they paused the story, though did think there were a few previous points where it was going to be the end.

    It absolutely has to be seen on a (big) cinema screen with a good sound system.
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 07-11-2021, 13:22.

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  • Ray de Galles
    replied
    They greenlit Part 2 a couple of weeks ago, it's due out October 2023.

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  • danielmak
    replied
    Like Inca, I haven't read any of the books and I did not see Lynch's film. I watched the trailer in this thread, it felt a lot like Blade Runner 2049, so I wanted to see the film. The soundtrack and cinematography was a lot like 2049, which is neither good nor bad. I watched at home via HBO Max on a decent sized TV (though not as large as I would like but I'm not going to win that battle). I thought it was good. I might watch again in a few weeks to see what I missed, but I'll look forward to part 2. It would suck if a part 2 was not made.

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  • Levin
    replied
    I don't think you get to be that long, that languid and end in the middle of a book.

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  • Patrick Thistle
    replied
    I stayed off this thread when people started posting reviews. I saw it tonight.

    I felt it got lots right. The sheer scale of the Spacing Guild carrier ships. The post-technology technology. The centuries of tradition. There was more exposition than you get in the book, but it was sensitively done. Most stuff isn't explained in any depth in the book really. You have to read Princess Imrulan's epilogue to get a lot of explanations. The changes made were necessary to make the movie work. I felt all the casting choices were pretty good. And it split the story at the best possible point.

    I agree that people who haven't read the books might find it a struggle. But, well, forget those people. This film felt like it was made for me and my mate who I went with who also likes talking about Dune. The most important thing (for me) is that they didn't totally fuck it up to turn it into a people pleaser. I reckon if you went and paid attention you would know what was going on and it might pique your interest to find out more. And in a way, that's the main attraction of Dune - a glimpse into part of a big story you don't fully understand. I think Villeneuve got that right.

    My one note of criticism would be the score. Hans Zimmer is the 2020 version of Danny Elfman or Vangelis - he has one way of approaching a score and by golly he's going to Hans Zimmer the fuck out of it. And the music blasted out throughout. There was almost no other noises in the film at all. What do the spaceships sound like...? [ZIMMERBLAST] What's going on in the battle [ZIMMERBLAST!!] How does shai-halud greet the sunlight when it surfaces? [ZIMMERBLAST!!!]

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