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    The new Dune movie.

    Oh my wow. https://m.imdb.com/title/tt1160419/

    Could be one for multiple big screen viewings.

    #2
    Looks interesting.

    I've never really understood the hatred for the Lynch's 1984 version, yes it's a big sprawling mess but it contains so many scenes that have stayed with me and features an amazing, eclectic cast. It always seemed to me that it was a more serious "Flash Gordon" and almost as much fun.

    Then again I don't think I've watched it for 20+ years.

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      #3
      I'm with tracteurgarcon. Haven't seen it for a long, long time but I can still remember bits of it.

      Tried reading the books and never clicked with them. The trailer isn't doing much for me but to be honest, for me Denis Villeneuve can do no wrong. Arrival and Blade Runner 2049 are absolute masterpieces.

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        #4
        I thought Blade Runner 2049 looked fantastic. Unfortunately it was let down by the script / story. I didn't realise he did Arrival. That was a very good film.

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          #5
          The Dune film from the 80s was a decent effort and consistent with the books, but now the special effects and the sets look kind of cheap and silly in a way that Star Wars’ do not.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
            I thought Blade Runner 2049 looked fantastic. Unfortunately it was let down by the script / story. I didn't realise he did Arrival. That was a very good film.
            Arrival was a massive disappointment for me, stodgy ponderous and massively predictable.

            However, I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed Blade Runner 2049 as I was expecting it to be a redundant exercise. The visuals were certainly the most impressive factor but then again Villeneuve only directed and didn't write it. Outside of sci-fi, he also directed Sicario which is still his best work.

            Interestingly, he has written, directed and produced Dune so it's obviously a passion project. I've got no experience of the books or Lynch movie but will be giving this one a go, especially as my children were very excited by the trailer.
            Last edited by Ray de Galles; 11-09-2020, 13:38.

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              #7
              I would suggest you try reading the book,
              Ray de Galles, because I think it is one of those ones where knowing the rough story will help explain who everyone is. That was the case with David Lynch's movie. (
              Hot Pepsi is correct that the effects haven't aged well)

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                #8
                I didn't find Arrival to be predictable. Perhaps because I wasn't making any effort to predict where it was going. Nor do I see predictability as necessarily a problem in stories.

                I struggled to get into Dune the few times I tried to pick it up as a teenager, but then I listened to it on Audible about a year ago. It helps a bit to be able to quickly look up the names and neologisms Herbert has invented while listening it. I think some versions - or maybe all of them - of the book have a glossary.

                I recall that was a problem with the original film. It was just hard for audiences who hadn't read the book and/or just aren't especially into scifi to understand WTF was happening. I recall seeing it in a theater in Cincinnati with my whole family and my uncle's family. He was a lot smarter than most people and had read the book and had to explain it to me afterward.

                I saw it again at home. And I distinctly recall that the VHS version of it came with a little booklet with the glossary which I dutifully put back in the box before returning the tape to Mike's Video.

                It's not really that complicated once you get into it - as scifi/fantasy goes. What is a bit complicated is that Herbert was, to some extent, trying to subvert the traditional tale of "chosen one becomes king." But that doesn't fully reveal itself until the second book (which I just started). I know Villeneuve is planning at least two films, but I don't know if he's going to get into the second book or not. So if it just ends with the first book, as the 80's film did, it may come off as a very stock hero's tale. Indeed, insofar as the Fremen are seen as an allegory for indigenous people, it may even come off as a bit of a "white savior" thing, though I don't think that's the idea at all.
                Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 11-09-2020, 19:09.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post
                  I've got no experience of the books or Lynch movie but will be giving this one a go, especially as my children were very excited by the trailer.
                  This last phrases particularly piques my curiosity, Ray. Are your children already fans of the book(s), perhaps, or were they simply agog at the trailer as a thing purely in its own right?

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                    #10
                    I believe the two part film is just of the first book, though I hope I'm wrong. There's also a Bene Geserit spin-off HBO show planned, which I'm ambivalent about. For me the worst thing about the Lynch Dune is the ponderous way the dialogue is delivered (but Herbert was terrible at dialogue anyways, and characterisation) and Stilgar/Fremen being fuggin Aryan.

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                      #11
                      They have blue eyes because of the spice, of course.

                      I've never read it as a white saviour theme. The Fremen are a highly adapted race and without them Paul would be as dead as Duncan Idaho.

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                        #12
                        Never saw it as white saviour either. And the later books show the folly of backing a hero. But the casting of the Fremen seemed way off in the Lynch version.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Various Artist View Post
                          This last phrases particularly piques my curiosity, Ray. Are your children already fans of the book(s), perhaps, or were they simply agog at the trailer as a thing purely in its own right?
                          It was the trailer itself, both its epic scale & kinetic thrust, and the cast - my daughters love Timothy Showaddywaddy and Zendaya while my son was more impressed by Oscar Isaac, Dave Bautista and Jason Momoa's presence.

                          They're all pretty widely read but I don't think the books are on their radar at all.
                          Last edited by Ray de Galles; 11-09-2020, 23:05.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                            I didn't find Arrival to be predictable. Perhaps because I wasn't making any effort to predict where it was going. Nor do I see predictability as necessarily a problem in stories.
                            Oh, I don't necessarily have a problem with it myself but 'Arrival' seemed to place an awful lot of importance on a "reveal" that was obvious early on and then not entertain or inspire much getting there.


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                              #15
                              As a word of advice, if you are going to read it, Dune itself takes a little while to get going, but is worth it. Dune Messiah is a short follow up that I can barely remember. Children of Dune similarly made little impact on me. God Emperor of Dune is where I checked out of the series because it seemed to just go utterly whacko.

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                                #16
                                Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post

                                It was the trailer itself, both its epic scale & kinetic thrust, and the cast - my daughters love Timothy Showaddywaddy and Zendaya while my son was more impressed by Oscar Isaac, Dave Bautista and Jason Momoa's presence.

                                They're all pretty widely read but I don't think the books are on their radar at all.
                                Ah, thanks Ray. I had the feeling that that last sentence was almost certainly the case, but I was intrigued precisely because I found the idea of a younger generation (and females in particular, given the genre's traditional male-dominated [?] audience) reading Dune so unlikely, so I thought I'd better check!

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                                  #17
                                  Certainly the version of Dune I have has a glossary. It helps when the Baron says something about the art of kanly, and it's literally the one line and the only time anyone refers to it. It's not mentioned again, before or after. So you turn to the glossary to find out it's the very formal manner in which Houses that aren't quite at war with each other write correspondence to each other.

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                                    #18
                                    Seen a comment that they've changed "jihad" to "crusade" in the dialogue in the trailer. Presume it will be the same in the actual film release too.

                                    Makes sense, I guess.

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                                      #19
                                      I adored the first 3 books. The 4th one a little less and with diminishing returns from thereon. The scope and scale of them is impressive though. And there are some really impressive ideas there. The idea of a group manipulating religions and blood lines across centuries to achieve their aims, the way humans will fall back on feudal states when oligarchies and monopolies exist, the utter pointlessness of all of it when set against millennia of infighting.
                                      Then there's the under story, hinted at and suggested in the original books (and explored in the most feeble and hamfisted way by his son in a series of follow up books) about how society got to where it was. Relationships with artificial intelligence and a technological singularity that left humanity reeling and scrabbling back to older ways for existing.
                                      It's a mindblowing body of work for its time, for all its clunkiness when compared to some of today's sci fi.

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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                        Seen a comment that they've changed "jihad" to "crusade" in the dialogue in the trailer. Presume it will be the same in the actual film release too.

                                        Makes sense, I guess.
                                        There’s a whole backstory about how the religious traditions we are familiar with eventually merge to create new ones, like the devotees of the Orange Catholic Bible, Buddislam, Zensufis, etc.

                                        I’m sure there will be plenty of hot takes on how the change from jihad to crusade is PC gone mad. They’re both loaded in a way they would not have been when Herbert wrote Dune. I’d have gone with “religious war.”

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                                          #21
                                          Sci-Fi writer Adam Roberts retweeted an interesting thread about Judaism and Dune. It's the only religion to make it's its way to Dune's present untouched. The Bene Gesserit meddle and shape all the other world religions to suit their purpose. The Jewish people who do pop up in the books are a little, stereotyped.

                                          I probably read Dune too young, it was fun but I raced through books on the surface then.

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                                            #22
                                            Originally posted by hobbes View Post
                                            .
                                            Then there's the under story, hinted at and suggested in the original books (and explored in the most feeble and hamfisted way by his son in a series of follow up books) about how society got to where it was. Relationships with artificial intelligence and a technological singularity that left humanity reeling and scrabbling back to older ways for existing.
                                            Hence the reliance on spice so that humans can navigate hyperspace because AI was verboten.

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                                              #23
                                              Not a thread, an article

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                                                #24
                                                I have not read the books or watched the Lynch film, but watched the trailer since I'm a fan of both Blade Runner films. The trailer looks excellent. I don't know when it will come out in the US but I'm not going to the cinema during COVID. That's a shame because this looks like a film worth seeing a big screen. Either there will be a vaccine (not likely) or I will see it when it reaches a movie channel or streaming service.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by Levin View Post
                                                  That was really interesting. Thanks Levin

                                                  Seems like I haven't missed anything by not reading the full series.

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