Films/series we don't really need

[Uncle Ethan]

Every single show where some d-grade celebrity offers their opinion on an event or person (see JK Rowling on the Live Aid doco).

[Hot Pepsi]

But it should require better than 24 hours a day of relentless "scripted reality" sludge that makes your brain melt from your ears.

The problem with all that shit isn’t that it doesn’t require thought. It’s worse than that.

At best, it’s just gawking at the mentally ill, or worse, it’s actively valorizing* stupid, shitty amoral behavior.

But plenty of ok stuff doesn’t require much thought to enjoy but can still be uplifting or even edifying.

It doesn’t take much thought to watch most sitcoms. That doesn’t mean their rotting one’s brains. They just help people feel less stressed and anxious.

My hypotheses is that most sitcoms and late night talk shows aren’t really supposed to be laugh-out-loud funny. They’re just people enjoying each other’s company or, at least, doing a very good job pretending to do that (that’s why most of the guests on talk shows are actors) and every now and then some genuine comedy or a real human moment arises.

But the rest of the time, it’s just an escape to a world that is easier to comprehend and perhaps more friendly than the one most of us inhabit. Or, at least, more interesting. That’s even true of a lot of dramas.

Not always. Some comedy shows are about frustration - Seinfeld was sometimes like that, Veep and the Thick of It was mostly that way. And Dave Letterman’s Show, especially the old one on NBC, was often about creating comedy from awkwardness.

But I don’t think it’s a great tragedy that that sort of thing seems to have fallen out of favor while Carpool Karaoke is popular. It’s fine. Whatever keeps people from despair.

*I know that simply showing people behaving in a certain way isn’t necessarily supposed to be celebrating or promoting it, but the way reality tv is promoted and edited, it clearly is not meant as a sober documentary.

[Sporting]

Great post. I don't always want to be challenged. I want comfort TV in the same way as comfort food. We have enough stress as it is.

[3 Colours Red]

I never meant my first post to mean that I had some outdated Reithian vision about what TV should be. We all need to switch off sometimes but we should be able to do so without feeling that we're actively making ourselves dumber.

It's the difference between watching an Adam Sandler film from 20 years ago and watching an Adam Sandler film from now.

[gavc23]

Although, if you’d asked me a few years ago if the world needed a Karate Kid spin-off TV show where a washed up middle aged former Cobra Kai student tried to restart the dojo whilst car salesman Danny LaRusso looks on disconcertingly I’d have asked you to leave the building. It sounds like the very definition of a TV show we don’t need.

Yet Cobra Kai is ace.

[Jumbo McGinnis]

The soaps don’t need to be on six times a week. It’s little wonder at this stage that Emmerdale is more dangerous than downtown Medellin in the nineties.

“Right, whats our next big storyline”.

* rummages in a bowl full of folded up paper *

* opens paper *

”Right, we’re having a massive earthquake lads”.

[Jah Womble]

*I know that simply showing people behaving in a certain way isn't necessarily supposed to be celebrating or promoting it, but the way reality tv is promoted and edited, it clearly is not meant as a sober documentary.

Reality television is absolutely promoted in that way. I have no issue with (proper) games that rely on duplicity and cunning as part of a format, but encouraging people of (in many cases) limited education to act hurtfully toward others is morally and ethically very questionable, IMO.

I don't expect many to agree, but if someone argues that these kind of reality shows are their 'escapism', then I can only guess at what kind of moral code that person might live by.

Game of Thrones is 'escapism'.

[Sits]

Some good posts on this page.

[Various Artist]

Some comedy shows are about frustration - Seinfeld was sometimes like that, Veep and the Thick of It was mostly that way.

You should try living over here Reed. Almost all of the great British sitcoms are about frustration, in one form or another – certainly we've traditionally built our most fondly-thought-of ones around people who are, basically, losers.

John Cleese in Fawlty Towers of course epitomises, nay embodies barely-contained boiling frustration in the human form of a small-town hotel manager. The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin is about another frustrated middle-aged middle manager stuck in a soulless existence where his chief release is surreal flights of fancy and who attempts to escape it all by faking his own suicide. Only Fools and Horses is about a family of essentially small-time crooks in a tower block, tightrope-walking the line of legality. Porridge is about actual imprisoned criminals. Steptoe and Son is about a father and son who hate each other but are trapped in their breadline existence together. (One thing I always wonder about is, when it was remade successfully in the US as Sanford and Son, did they revamp the premise substantially? I genuinely don't know enough about it to judge.)
One Foot In The Grave is about a fundamentally decent man who's past his prime and can't help but hate nearly everything because the world for some perverse reason just seems to have it in for him. (Ditto for Ever Decreasing Circles, more or less.) Alan Partridge is about a pompous, deluded, sincerity-free, tact-free imbecile of a TV presenter who gets banished to local radio after accidentally killing a guest on his talk show and ends up living in a travel hotel. Father Ted's priests are trapped together on an isolated island where the most incompetent, socially undesirable/maladroit clergy such as they are banished away from the rest of the church and society. Red Dwarf's two human protagonists are a couple of bottom-ranked misfits trapped on a spaceship 3 million years into deep space, who, yes, hate each other – and one of them is dead from halfway through the first episode.

Etc., etc – crucially, the protagonists being in some way trapped in a bad situation they can never escape is the heart of pretty much all these shows.The trajectory of Blackadder is a great example: across the various versions of the character, he becomes lower and lower socially-ranked, and the boundaries of his world literally shrink (from being a Norman prince of the realm, filmed with copious location footage, to subsequent series with tiny cheap studio sets where he's a relatively minor aristocrat and then a butler to royalty, ending up with Captain Blackadder stuck in a trench on the Western Front), but the esteem the series is held in only grew. As a nation, we've always seemed to distrust the fundamentally optimistic style of American comedies, and shy away from any centred on happy or successful people. We're much more comfortable with frustrated losers, in other words.

[Eggchaser]

See also: making authentic longbows, arrows, broadswords...

I don't know, I usually find that bit interesting if only because someone is learning the skills that every day folks would have required, making a change from the procession of monarchs and nobility, although there is definitely a whiff of suppressed LARP about them.

[Sporting]

The Steptoes didn't hate each other. They hated various aspects of the other's personality. But when push came to shove family took precedence.

[Various Artist]

Fair enough. They just violently disagreed with each other sometimes. Would it be an exaggeration to describe Harold's feelings for Albert as veering into hatred, mind?

[Various Artist]

I don't know, I usually find that bit interesting if only because someone is learning the skills that every day folks would have required, making a change from the procession of monarchs and nobility, although there is definitely a whiff of suppressed LARP about them.

As long as it's only an actual craftsman or committed amateur making them it's OK. It's when the dreaded situation where the presenter feels the compulsion to 'have a go' cluelessly, or is made to by their producers, that sticks in the craw.

[ad hoc]

I thoink a fair number of US sitcoms had this too, though. Frasier was built on that frustration thing. Even something as anodyne and lightweight as "Everybody Loves Raymond" was pretty much formulated around the audience screaming at the screen "Just tell your awful overbearing mother to fuck off!"

[Patrick Thistle]

That's definitely very true about being trapped by your circumstances as the key element of classic British sitcoms. Even The Good Life, which was about a couple who somehow escaped their circumstances, showed that as a struggle, and the best lines went to Jerry who looked on enviously at his neighbours who has sort of escaped. There's a lovely bit in the last episode where Tom is about to jack it all in because it's just too hard to manage everything and Jerry gives him some money to pay for the one thing that was going to make him give up and rejoin the rat race. Because Jerry could never escape himself and seeing Tom and Barbara escape it had given him some hope.

[Patrick Thistle]

Even something as anodyne and lightweight as "Everybody Loves Raymond" was pretty much formulated around the audience screaming at the screen "Just tell your awful overbearing mother to fuck off!"

Marie Barone is the ultimate monster. And she does everything out of "love". It's terrifying.

[Sporting]

That's definitely very true about being trapped by your circumstances as the key element of classic British sitcoms. Even The Good Life, which was about a couple who somehow escaped their circumstances, showed that as a struggle, and the best lines went to Jerry who looked on enviously at his neighbours who has sort of escaped. There's a lovely bit in the last episode where Tom is about to jack it all in because it's just too hard to manage everything and Jerry gives him some money to pay for the one thing that was going to make him give up and rejoin the rat race. Because Jerry could never escape himself and seeing Tom and Barbara escape it had given him some hope.

I think Richard Briers is on record as saying that his character was a selfish oaf but that very few viewers got the point.

[Patrick Thistle]

Sporting Well, yeah, but most lead comedy characters are, especially in British sitcoms. That's why they are frustrated at the things that impinge on their freedom. Tom Good is one of the few characters to actually follow through and enact what he wants.

[Jah Womble]

The most basic rule of the sitcom is that you never escape that 'situation'. (This is why Colin's Sandwich lasted only one series.)

The Steptoes didn't hate each other. They hated various aspects of the other's personality. But when push came to shove family took precedence.

They just hated one another in real life.

[Sporting]

The most basic rule of the sitcom is that you never escape that 'situation'. (This is why Colin's Sandwich lasted only one series.)



They just hated one another in real life.

Shades of The Likely Lads.

[Hot Pepsi]

Great post. I don't always want to be challenged. I want comfort TV in the same way as comfort food. We have enough stress as it is.

As I mentioned on the Current Watching thread, the streaming services have finally noticed this trend during the pandemic and have categories on their home pages to reflect that.

I'm all on board. I have not been doing well. It could be much worse, but it hasn't been great.

Therefore, since the pandemic began, I've watched all of the Pirates movies three times, a shit ton of Star Wars - movies and animated shows - and the last few seasons of The Big Bang Theory three times (first I just watched the last two, then realized I wanted to go back further, but then just kept going, and then realized I wanted to go back further and started over at season 6 and went to the end). I've watched all of Young Sheldon. I watched Frozen 2. I paid $20 to watch the new Bill & Ted's film. In fact, I watched it twice to get something a bit closer to my money's worth.

Anything that's "challenging" or "important" (so, most of HBO's original series) not only doesn't appeal right now, but makes groan audibly. (It all reminds me of Patton Oswalt's story of being depressed in a supermarket and picking the TV dinner that required the fewest steps. Google that if you haven't seen it) Anything with a lot of relevance to "the current moment" feels like a fucking provocation. Indeed, I've sort of turned into my mother insofar as I don't really want to see any more violence on TV. So The Boys can fuck right off - indeed, I'm kind of out on that whole Garth Ennis/British take on superheroes. Yeah, we get it. You think American superheroes are twee and dumb so you want a lot of violence and nihlism. You know who else thought that? Alan Moore. THIRTY-FIVE FUCKING YEARS AGO. It's not edgy or very interesting any more. So much so that most of that shit has been incorporated into the Marvel/DC milieu.

(I have tried to watch Raised By Wolves - apparently there are two completely different shows with that name. I mean the scifi one. I may persist, but I can't stay focused on it long enough to understand what is happening. We'll see).

I've watched a bunch of the first ten seasons of The Simpsons, of course.

I don't say all this as a cry for help, though it may be anyway. (I've already cried for help to the relevant people or, at least, plan to.)

But just that I think this is what is going on for a lot of people right now. If some people want to watch The Wire or earnest documentaries, then that's fine. And I fully recognize the super-duper white privilege of just saying "i'm out." But I'm not out on the real struggle. I'm just out on TV that piles on more anxiety and sadness.

You should try living over here Reed. Almost all of the great British sitcoms are about frustration, in one form or another – certainly we've traditionally built our most fondly-thought-of ones around people who are, basically, losers....

Yes, that's right, and some of that is popular in the US, but we generally want something more optimistic, especially if the show is going to go on for six to 12 seasons.

But that sort of British stuff was very influential on shows like 30 Rock, Parks & Rec and, obviously, The US Office, but those shows combined that kind of comedy of incompetence with a more sentimental and ultimately optimistic view of people's ability to find community amidst the chaos. To some extent, that was also the case with much older shows like Taxi, Cheers, Frasier, Scrubs, Spin City, among others, but not quite in the same way. (Clearly James Burroughs was hugely influential on Bill Lawrence.)*

Not that the British style isn't popular at all here. We still have Curb Your Enthusiasm and Veep was, at least at first, essentially the American The Thick of It. It later turned into a "gag machine," as opposed to really pointed satire, but it never had the sentimentality of The US Office. But those are on HBO, not networks. A key distinction.



BTW, Mythic Quest on Apple is very much in this vein. I mentioned it on the other thread but didn't explain it. It's about a video game company (hence the name), but it's about a fairly insane office environment in an insane industry, but ultimately the main characters are human and it has real human moments. It had an especially good "bottle episode" about two completely different characters from the past that might be tied in more fully to the main story later.

I really like Ted Lasso, which is unbelievably kind-hearted for a show supposedly about a Premiership club run by an American football coach. Totally unrealistic, but it's lovely. Also by Bill Lawrence, creator of Scrubs and Cougar Town. I suppose that is also a workplace sitcom, but not in the same way. It's more story-driven.


Sorry, that was really long, but to be honest, I've got no other humans to talk to.




*And as we discussed before, I find this video persuasive. I think there was a real shift away from schmaltz to too much irony and then back to a kind of better synthesis where people want
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2doZROwdte4

[San Bernardhinault]

I'm kind of on board with you here, HP. I'm actually fine with some HBO or Showtime content - for me drama is different.

But the kind of comedy I'm finding harder and harder to watch is discomfort comedy. The idea that it's fun to put someone in a situation that just makes you squirm with discomfort about what is about to happen. I think I'm rare in hardly ever finding that kind of situation actually funny - and a lot of modern comedy seems to have that as its basic premise. But I used to be able to handle it fine while waiting for non-squirmy funnies to happen. Right now, though, I just don't want to be in much discomfort watching comedy. I just want my comedies to be a slightly amusing warm hug, ideally with puns. I should probably just rewatch Police Squad over and over again.

[Ginger Yellow]

BTW, Mythic Quest on Apple is very much in this vein. It's about a video game company (hence the name), but it's about a fairly insane office environment in an insane industry, but ultimately the main characters are human and it has real human moments. It had an especially good "bottle episode" about two completely different characters from the past that might be tied in more fully to the main story later.

Huh. I did not come away from Mythic Quest thinking it had a positive outlook on humanity. The boss is a monster, Poppy undermines her own achievements and ability at every turn out of misguided loyalty, and pretty much everyone else either lets themselves be exploited or is doing the exploiting.

[Hot Pepsi]

Huh. I did not come away from Mythic Quest thinking it had a positive outlook on humanity. The boss is a monster, Poppy undermines her own achievements and ability at every turn out of misguided loyalty, and pretty much everyone else either lets themselves be exploited or is doing the exploiting.

I thought so too, and almost gave up on it, but did you watch through the end of the season?

It really takes a turn after that aforementioned bottle episode with Jake Johnson and Christin Miloti. And then it ends with an episode they made, mostly online, during the pandemic. There's a genuinely human moment between Ian and Poppy.

I'm curious where it will go. It seems to be following this turn-from-cynicism that I was talking about in a single show.

[Ginger Yellow]

I watched through to the main end, though I can't actually remember if I watched the special. There are genuine human moments, sure, but I still don't think it's particularly positive. I mean, even the bottle episode, their relationship doesn't survive and they their creative ideals are betrayed.

And that's fine, I actually quite like the show. But I'm a cynical bastard.