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The Irishman

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    The Irishman

    I went to see this last night, I know it's out on Netflix at the end of the month but it appeared to be a proper film that would benefit from the full cinematic presentation. Not least because, for me, the three and a half hour running time needs the full immersion that a movie theatre affords. I can't imagine getting that much uninterrupted time to focus on it at home.

    I enjoyed it, a lot, though perhaps wouldn't go as far as to call it the classic that some reviews have. It's basically a long, agreeable time in the presence of fantastic actors playing off each other in a world (re)created by a great auteur, the substance of the film itself probably wouldn't work at all without this cast and director, unsurprisingly.

    Joe Pesci comes close to stealing the film as he gives the most subtle performance of the leads, with Pacino predictably at the other end of the scale and De Niro coming somewhere in the middle. Stephen Graham is absolutely fantastic in a small role and the whole film is filled with great little turns (I'm sure I spotted Stevie Van Zandt in a cameo as a nightclub singer but can't find any evidence it's him online).

    The much-talked-about de-aging effects didn't bother me at all (even the disconnect between the actor's youthful faces and older man's movements in a couple of scenes) and, to my mind, were far more successful than using younger actors in the early scenes or prosthetics/make-up would have been (there is one use of prosthetics in the film which is terrible, actually - though not used to age/de-age someone).

    One thing it did make me realise is that any mob movie released nowadays ,even one with the talent behind it that The Irishman has, is going to suffer in the shadow of The Sopranos. The genre has been perfected, though that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the right people giving it another go. I'm now wondering how many mob movies I've seen since The Sopranos that left a major impression on me, 'Killing Them Softly' came to mind but there must be others.
    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 13-11-2019, 15:19.

    #2
    Never heard of this film. Might have a look at it.

    I see Robert de Niro is in it, presumably starring as Robert de Niro.

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      #3
      Originally posted by Ray de Galles View Post

      One thing it did make me realise is that any mob movie released nowadays ,even one with the talent behind it that The Irishman has, is going to suffer in the shadow of The Sopranos.
      "Gomorrah", I thought, was ten times better than "The Sopranos".

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        #4
        I love almost anything Scorcese does and have been pumped to see this for months. Man, it's a long one, though.

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          #5
          Which is why I'll watch it at home. Pausing for bathroom breaks will definitely be required.

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            #6
            Damn straight.

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              #7
              There’s been a ton written and said about how this film is a watershed for the entertainment business, not because of the film itself but because it’s a Scorsese film with major stars and it’s going to be on only a few screens before going to Netflix.

              Five years ago, let alone 10 or 20, this one have been a big Oscar-bait release just like The Departed was. But the movie-theater business is dying and home video-streaming services are what is killing it.

              Even Scorsese, who loves the big screen, has to accept that now. I don’t think he wanted to do it this way, but no other studio would fund his vision for this film.

              He’s among those worried that Marvel/Disney films, which he thinks are not “cinema,” are taking over and crowding out everything else. But I don’t think those blockbusters at *pushing* anything out of theaters so much as all those other kinds of films are just turning into series on streaming and premium cable services, because that’s how people want to consume them. And, in many cases, that’s how the creators want to tell the stories.

              The Marvel/Star Wars films are simply the only things left that huge numbers of people want to see in the theater. I’m one of those people. The last movie I saw in a theater was Endgame. I used to go to the movies almost every week. Now I mostly just watch things at home. It’s simply much cheaper.



              *But even that might not last.

              The Avengers/MCU series started over a decade ago before this streaming thing took off and then built inertia to the point that these films became “events” for a lot of fans. And, of course, Star Wars films - even the crap prequels - were treated that way, so that momentum carried into the latest sequels.

              But Solo, for example, didn’t do very well commercially, showing there’s a limit to how many of these “events” large audiences will pay for. Now that this cycle of Marvel and Star Wars films are over, it’s not certain that the next wave of these films will do nearly as well in theaters or if all of the ones they’ve announced will even be widely released in theaters. Some may be on Disney+ almost as soon as they’re released and some might just become Disney+ series.




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                #8
                Originally posted by treibeis View Post
                "Gomorrah", I thought, was ten times better than "The Sopranos".
                Actually, a lot of people have recommended the show to me but I've not seen it and must remedy that. Interesting that it's not a "mob movie", maybe the genre will thrive on long form episodic TV.

                Coincidentally, I saw this article (WARNING : CONTAINS SPOILERS) this morning which asks 'Is The Irishman the end of the gangster movie as we know it?' which is also a good summary of the overall feel of the film ("sedate" and "glacial" are used in the opening paragraph, and not as criticism).
                Last edited by Ray de Galles; 14-11-2019, 13:45.

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                  #9
                  It is excellent (though bleak), as is the book it is based on (the author of which must live with constant police protection).

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                    #10
                    I had to watch it at the Barbican and fork out £12 rather than catch it at Cineworld using my unlimited card. Think Odeon and Cineworld have missed a trick by refusing to show it. Anyway, I was stuck in a row flanked by middle aged drunks that opened a mini-bottle of wine every half hour on one side, and some twat whose date/gf left him with 45 minutes left to go, and he couldn't stop looking at his phone every 2 minutes. Wish I could have chinned him. I probably should have waited until it was on Netflix.

                    Enjoyed the film itself, though dragged on for at least 30 minutes too long after Pacino's exit. I know he's prone to being an older Nic Cage, but I thought Pacino was very good, and well offset by Pesci. The best scenes were those shared between Pacino and Stephen Graham. The 'de-aging' didn't really bother me, cos I didn't really notice it. I read somewhere it would show De Niro as young as he was portraying Vito Corleone, a quite outlandish claim.
                    Colleague of mine saw it at the London Film Festival and Harvey Keitel turned up for the premiere. He's barely in the film at all, perhaps says slightly more than Anna Paquin does as De Niro's daughter.
                    It's not a classic, but a nice revival piece so to speak.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by RobW View Post
                      Anyway, I was stuck in a row flanked by middle aged drunks that opened a mini-bottle of wine every half hour on one side, and some twat whose date/gf left him with 45 minutes left to go, and he couldn't stop looking at his phone every 2 minutes.
                      Yeah, this is why cinemas are dying, not streaming.

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                        #12
                        The last five or six concerts I've been to, people all around us where taking their phones out every two or three minutes to check texts, scroll through FB and Instagram, or whatever else grabbed their fancy. Great shows, too. Mid song. Drives me fucking bananas.

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                          #13
                          Yup. A friend went to a Steve Vai show not long ago. He's a guitarist and Vai's one of his idols I guess. He got as close as he could to the front but spent most of the concert batting people's phones from in front of his face. He was royally pissed.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Ginger Yellow View Post
                            Yeah, this is why cinemas are dying, not streaming.
                            It’s both. The at-home experience keeps getting better while the theater experience isn’t getting any better.

                            It may be getting worse, as you say. I have not personally witnessed many violations of phone etiquette in movie theaters lately and drinking in theaters isn’t really a thing where I live, but that probably makes the experience worse for most people.

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                              #15
                              I'm assuming the booze was bought at the cinema, and not brought in cos for the second time this month, i've had my bag checked at a cinema. I wish those old Orange adverts came true and that people had to give up their phones before entering.

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                                #16
                                The one and only time I've seen a bag check at the cinema was in London. They didn't mind that we were bringing in snacks from the shop next door.
                                It would actually be really easy to sneak booze, etc into our cinemas. The low-wage high school students working there don't usually check. But the threat that they might and cause a moment of embarrassment seems to keep most people from ever trying.

                                But places that serve booze in the cinema might be among the few that survive.

                                Netflix has a site where you can see where The Irishman is playing in an actual theater. The closest to me is about 100 miles away. I'll just wait for it on Netflix.
                                https://www.theirishman-movie.com/

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                                  #17
                                  I have to say that I was very impressed with French cinema etiquette when I lived in Paris. Ok, Île-de-France; I'm not made of money.

                                  Now there's a country that still appreciates watching films in a cinema.

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Hot Pepsi View Post
                                    The at-home experience keeps getting better while the theater experience isn’t getting any better.
                                    Sure, but at least as far as I'm concerned, streaming per se is a very small part of that (though it helps that Netflix has a lot of UHD HDR content). It's much more about the improvement in TV quality (and increase in size), having decent sound at home these days, and above all not having to deal with arseholes on their phones.

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                                      #19
                                      That’s all part of it. This trend has been happening for a while - at least since Blueray became a thing, but sales of physical media are dying, so at least right now, the theater’s main competition is streaming.

                                      https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...rs-such-as-amc

                                      You are right that it isn’t just the streamingness that makes that more attractive, it’s the quality of the home hardware and the lack of quality of the theater experience.

                                      But the number of choices offered by streaming and the number of excellent series on streaming services is well beyond what we had in the days of video stores.

                                      Maybe it’s not as good in the UK yet, but we have access to Netflix, Hulu, Prime, Disney Plus, Apple +, HBO, and soon we’ll have a few more options. Why would I pay $11 to go to a theater to see something I *might* like, when I could chose between almost any movie or TV show ever made? If I’m not into something in the first 20 minutes, I can just try something else.

                                      I don’t get all of those services. I get different ones in different months. Still cheaper and way better than cable.

                                      This is one of “those” articles, but there does seem to be evidence that a lot of people - like me - just don’t want to leave their house/apartment.

                                      https://qz.com/quartzy/1748191/how-m...of-homebodies/




                                      Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 18-11-2019, 21:35.

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                                        #20
                                        I wrote an email to Cineplex last year about my experience at one of their theatres. A few months later, some PR woman wrote back to say that they found my email so thoughtful and eloquent that it was read aloud at their AGM and had been sent to all their location managers. I sort of expected I'd be offered coupons, but none were forthcoming.

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                                          #21
                                          But the number of choices offered by streaming and the number of excellent series on streaming services is well beyond what we had in the days of video stores.
                                          True, but it's smaller than the choice offered by the DVD rental services (including Netflix!) before them, and indeed now. The convenience is better, certainly.

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                                            #22
                                            You can still get the Netflix DVD service, but you can also get almost any movie (or TV show) from Prime or iTunes. You have to pay for each one. That’s not cheap, but with inflation, probably about as much as we paid to rent from Blockbuster but without the hassle of dealing with the actual video store. You can also stream some things through the public library.

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                                              #23
                                              Ah, right, I don't really consider that streaming, just another form of VOD, though I guess Prime is and iTunes kind of can be, though I think it downloads by default.

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                                                #24
                                                Perhaps. But either way, you don’t have to leave your chair to watch it.

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                                                  #25
                                                  This is a good take.
                                                  https://bookandfilmglobe.com/film/marty-vs-marvel/

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