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The Irishman

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    I alway find it best when criticising a film's narrative not to doze off during it at least a dozen times.

    I think it is a fantastic swansong to the careers of four great contributors to the cinema - and the Mafia genre in particular. De Niro, Pacino, Pesci, Scorsese looking back on four tremendous careers, and on truth and fiction in the movies, and in America.

    Watched it three times now, and each time I think it's better.

    It reminds me of Giant, where Rock Hudson Elizabeth Taylor, James Dean remade the western in the 50's as little more than teenagers and end up playing themselves made up to look ridiculously old. That illusion feels part of the storytelling, just as do these old actors playing themselves half a century younger.


      Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
      I alway find it best when criticising a film's narrative not to doze off during it at least a dozen times.
      Doubtless you're correct. Though it was only a few seconds each time.


        I made it two hours in and then gave up due to boredom. Mind you, I've never really been into mob films nor Scorsese. My better half will fill in what happens in the final hour and a half.

        Pacino was quite good, though, I thought.
        Last edited by anton pulisov; 11-04-2020, 21:27.


          I watched it last night, and spent the first hour marvelling at the old Goodfellas gag being back together and seeing some cameos and bit parts from those actors. I was interested to see what they did with Peggy Sheeran given the set up, and what did they do? Nothing. And then the penny dropped - this is a man's movie, full of men doing men things, and its fucking tedious shite.

          There is literally no role for women. The only actual dialogue of any note is a 2 minutes scene where Hoffa's wife talks about what he should do to get control of the union back. Peggy is pure window dressing, as is Irene. Now, I know that in this world, that was exactly the role women played, but fucks sake, Casino had female characters (or at least one) and Goodfellas is packed to the gunnels with them. Scorsese has gone backwards; this is the cinematic equivalent of senility. He's forgotten what was interesting, and focuses on telling a story - they're not that glamorous and eventually become sad old men who then die if they're successful, or whacked with a cap in their ass if not - that he's told time and time again.

          If there was a movement of some form that started to reglamourise the mob, that might make sense, but you're left with wondering why anyone thought the rambling 'confession' of a thuggish drunkard about his life and times with a bunch of barely literate sociopathic misogynistic mates was a suitable story that needed to be told. Again. This is gammon storytelling, basically.
          On a different note, I've long been fascinated by the penetration of organised crime into trade unions in the US, and wondered how much was liberal calumny and how much was accurate. How big was it? How much was just the role of violence per se, as opposed to organised criminal violence, and how did those relate to each other etc etc. Anyone got any recommendations?


            lol Shorter. This was tedious misogynistic shite which Scorsesevat al have told a million times before.

            That unique premise it was based on... I wonder how true it was... I’d love to know more about it


              And your point is?



                That maybe it’s not as tedious as you think it is. It wasn’t the film you wanted it to be, but it’s a big mistake to confuse your disappointment with the quality of the film.

                its an old man’s film, for sure, but if any group of old men have earned the right to make a film about being old I reckon it’s Scorsese, Pesci De Niro and Pacino.

                ” This is the cinematic equivalent of senility” Is pretty fucking offensive, by the way.

                The word “senility” itself is a bit like using the word “spastic” it’s not medically accurate and suggests that the condition ( or condition) for which the word was used -are age related, which they aren’t , necessarily. That’s why the word was dropped towards the end of the last century.
                Last edited by Nefertiti2; 18-07-2020, 17:08.


                  I think the performances are very good and there's a price that Frank pays in losing his daughter's love and respect. I also sensed that Scorcese was recognizing the banality of evil in the characters played by De Niro and Pesci. There is no glamour in being sociopaths and misogynists. Frank is a dullard and his violence is vile. These points are all conveyed brilliantly. Everything The Mob Touches Dies, either physically or spiritually.