Comedies age well; dramas decline

[Anton Gramscescu]

I was thinking about this the other day: how few comedy shows are genuinely insanely great in their first season. Arrested Development and the original version of the Office are the only two comedies I can think of where the first season was genuinely class (even in Fawlty Towers - the second season was much, much better than the first). For the most part, comedies seem to get better as they go on because for real comedy you need to have some kind of empathy with the characters, and this takes time to build up - you need to get to know the characters.

Yet this doesn't seem to work for dramas. Lots of drama shows seem go over a cliff after about two seasons. Genuinely, I can't think of any dramas apart from the Wire and the Sopranos (although the latter is in many ways a comedy, so perhaps not a fair comparison) that continued to get better over time...and of course even the Wire fell prey to its season five.

Why is this? Why does greater empathy for the characters make for better comedies but worse dramas? Or is my initial thesis wrong to begin with?

[Amor de Cosmos]

Comedies age well; dramas decline

On the face of it I don't think that's true. The best long-form TV dramas — The Sopranos, The Wire, The Shield, Mad Men — have tended to maintain their quality, or improve, as they progress provided the writing stays strong. Very few comedies stay on top form for the five to ten years that those shows manage. Comedy tends to be built around the personality of the lead actor(s). Cleese, Gervais and others had more latitude in creating and molding their characters than dramatic actors have. If they get it right quickly it's brilliant but difficult to sustain for more than two or three seasons. There are exceptions, Seinfeld was one, Larry Sanders another, but they tend also to be "writerly" shows and, unless done with skill, rapidly become formulaic.

[Anton Gramscescu]

Comedies age well; dramas decline

You don't think Mad Men is going downhill? Anyways, the caveat about "provided the writing stays strong" is I think what I'm getting at...it usually doesn't.

Sanders is an interesting example. I've just bought the complete box set and have been going through it. It got *much* better as it went along, and did so largely because of Jeffrey Tambor (and because they got more deft at getting mileage out of the guests), not because of Gary Shandling.

I think I need to restate my OP slightly, though: "when we remember great comedies we tend to remember the later seasons; when we remember great dramas, we tend to remember the earlier seasons. Why is this?

[Amor de Cosmos]

Comedies age well; dramas decline

You don't think Mad Men is going downhill?

No. There was one below par episode last season but no noticeable decline overall.

"when we remember great comedies we tend to remember the later seasons; when we remember great dramas, we tend to remember the earlier seasons. Why is this?

I still don't buy your overall premise, especially as applied to drama. The final episodes of The Wire and The Sopranos were among the most memorable. The final season — actually two or three seasons — of The Shield was stunning.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Comedies age well; dramas decline

The consensus view among fans of The Wire and The Sopranos is that they fell off in their final seasons isn't it? (Not quite the insult it might appear, given how high the standard was.) Although seasons 3 and 4 of The Wire seem to be better loved than the first two.

I don't think there's that clear a divide. In long-form drama plot, character development, believability etc are so important that you'd expect planning ahead - knowing how many series you're likely to have commissioned - to be more important than it is with comedy, but that doesn't always seem to be the case in practice. And it depends what kind of comedy you're comparing your drama to: sketch shows often take a couple of series to find their voice (A Bit of Fry & Laurie and The Fast Show got better as they became more confident, for example). I think there's also a big difference between UK and US TV, the former tending to be shorter in episode and series length. So, er, I dunno.

[multipleman78]

Comedies age well; dramas decline

i know its not the Wire but i think a show like Dexter has really developed into an amazing show as it has went along. The first three series were very good but series 4 was stunning and series 5 was even better.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Comedies age well; dramas decline

I'd agree with that, particularly since the first season was so complete in and of itself that extending the concept seemed unlikely. Breaking Bad is another show that seems to have found its feet as its developed.

[dalliance]

Comedies age well; dramas decline

Yes I'd agree with Dexter getting better too. Can I add in Six Feet Under too, I think it belongs up there with The Sopranos and The Wire.

Larry Sanders is so understated and slow burning that while I couldn't say for sure it gets better in time, it feels that way as the longer you spend with the characters the more you get out of them.

Curb is slightly different from most comedies in as much as it has a strong series drama like story arc which drives each season and everything else hangs off. It's always funny but the overall strength of each season is pretty much driven by the strength of this main story. So the failed pitching of a new comedy show to all the networks and Larry's participation in The Producers are excellent seasons, so Season Six when the Blacks move in is noticeably weaker as it is a plot that never really catches fire.

Series numbers with Curb are pretty irrelevant though, especially as works to his own deadlines rather than studio ones.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Comedies age well; dramas decline

A lot of the great (as in long-running) comedies seem to age better because, over the years, their initially comic two-dimensional characters are given room to develop more rounded, human characters. The boorish drunk turns out to have a big heart, the timid woman in the bookstore turns out to be a maneater, etc, etc.

In dramas, the only way similarly dramatic two-dimensional characters can develop over time is by rounding them out the other way, and often in drama it doesn't work. Are we still interested in the psycho crime boss when we discover he cries over a picture of his dead daughter every night? Do we care that the bitch of a boss is terribly lonely outside of work and goes to a knitting circle purely for company?

I think it's probably easier to take initially comic characters, round them out with pathos, and still allow us to laugh at/with them, than take initially dramatic characters, round them out and still make us hate/fear/adore them, which is the point of good drama.