There's a fascinating article in the Graun on how badly Carpenter's The Thing was received by critics upon release. I would link, but the site seems to be down. It's one of my favourite movies, but I had no idea how widely panned it was at the time. Are there any other remakes, or second/third/fourth adaptions of material, that were underrated at the time but should now be considered classics?
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The Thing and its critics
I've never seen that.
There are some comedies that have become classics, or at least cult classics, despite critical indifference or disdain - Caddy Shack, for example. I don't recall the reviews, but I know that Austin Powers and Office Space are two films which did jack shit when first released by picked-up a lot of steam with word of mouth once they came out on DVD and are now on TV all the time and referenced constantly.
Lincoln's Gettysburg Address was, as I recall reading, panned by a lot of commentators at the time. -
The Thing and its critics
Peeping TomComment
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The Thing and its critics
I'm thinking specifically about remakes here, though. There's plenty of art that wasn't well received at first. I'm curious about the remake/second adaptation angle. These days, at least, there's a critical prejudice about such things (one I usually hold), so you'd think that the prevalence of such misjudgement would be higher. Mistaken nostalgia and all that. But to be honest I can't really think of many other examples.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
Oh and, Reed, you really have to see The Thing. Probably Carpenter's best movie and one of the best explorations of group paranoia on screen.
Speaking of Carpenter and remakes (kind of), anyone know how Assault on Precinct 13 was received at the time.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
Rather well I think: "One of the most effective exploitation movies of the past ten years." Time Out. Even grumpy old Leslie Halliwell said that it "shows that not all the expertise of the forties in this then familiar field has been lost."Comment
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The Thing and its critics
I meant Precinct 13 was a remake of Rio Bravo, with bits of Night of the Living Dead thrown in.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
Yeah, the Time Out review acknowledged the NotLD connection. Post-modern referentialism in movies was just becoming cool.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
Blade Runner was slammed upon its initial release in 1982 and did poorly at the box-office. Its now regarded as a classic.
Alien 3 was another that was given scathing reviews. Its now regarded as being really quite good, although thats more to do with the extended cut that was released in 2003.
The Thing suffered because it was released at a time when audiences had embraced E.T. (which was released the same year). The Thing was apocalyptic in nature and didn't sit well with audiences who were caught up in the E.T. phenomenon (E.T. is great movie and I'm not denying that).
The Thing is also one of my favourite movies. I have the collectors edition DVD and will often put it in the DVD player on a rainy night. Theres one thing that bothers me about the ending though.
*HERE BE SPOILERS*
After Macready kills the Blair Monster, Childs turns up out of nowhere. Where did he go initially? He said he left his post because he saw Blair wandering around but he's pretty vague as to what he was doing. Was Childs infected? Does Macready realise that Childs is infected when he says "Well, why don't we just sit here and see what happens"...
You'll notice that when Macready is outside, you can see the condensation jet out of his mouth when he speaks in the freezing cold...but when Childs talks, theres no condensation. Is this deliberate?
*END SPOILER*Comment
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The Thing and its critics
I forgot about it but Assault on Precinct 13 is a pretty good Soothsayer film, one of those which predicts the future.
In it, the old school Rockabilly gangster joins the cops against the gang. It would go on to predict the Reagan Democrats and Angry White Voter.
The thing is with Scarface and Thing is the same type of thing that happens with Academy Voters. It's often the Generation Gap. Academy Voters always vote for the shitty stodgy film, while younger voters vote for something like Brokeback Mountain. You could almost see when the Academy let younger voters in, when Departed and No Country For Old Men and Slumdog Millionaire started winning instead of Driving Miss Daisy and English Patient and Shakespeare in Love.
Likewise, the early 80s was the end of the old guard of critics who couldn't wait to praise the new Jack Lemmon or Woody Allen or Sidney Lumet film, while Gen X was dropping shitlogs in their pants during the lineup scene or squirming during the chainsaw shower scene.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
To return to GY's original question. I don't know whether it's regarded as a "classic" but the 1978 remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers was absolutely trashed at the time but seems to have required an enthusiastic following nowadays. I didn't mind it back in the day. Donald Sutherland as a food inspector: "This is a rat turd." Restaurant owner, "No it's not, it's a caper." "So eat it."Comment
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The Thing and its critics
Beat me to it, Amor ... I was only doubtful of its reception at the time - now confirmed.
If there had been t'Internet and otf at the time, there would have been a thread entitled 'Leave our Bodysnatchers alone!' when the re-make was announced. But it's really very good.
The final scene is a shocker. It would be made into a happy ending these days.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
if this is a thread of great films that were originally crucified, no better example than once upon a time in america
although this is mostly due to the linear film originally put out against Sergio Leone wishes, eventually followed by the directors cut years laterComment
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The Thing and its critics
One of my infrequent visits in here and "never post when pissed" notwithstanding... but I just want to say that 'The Thing' and 'Alien' - both late 70s films - are possibly the two greatest horror films in the history of cinema.
Why? Well, it's simple. When you 'cast' a horror film at some point in the future, you're playing to the strength that you can't say that this series of events couldn't happen. It's a beautiful - almost perfect - get-out clause.
In theory, it's one that means that any such film/story set in such a way could carry equal weight. In practice, the amount of bandwagon-jumping that went on in the wake of these two films (see 'Inseminoid' etc.) meant that such films - including the originals - were instantly devalued.
I haven't got much else to say about 'The Thing' (at the moment) except that I consider it and 'Alien' to be almost 'twins' in that they came out at a similar time and both had elements of H.P. Lovecraft's 'Cthulhu mythos' to them.
(Although the 'Alien' franchise has now been devalued beyond credulity, anyone wanting to see the potential power of that original concept/mythos should track down the comic book / graphic novel series that came after the second film, but preceded the third. This plotted out the 'Alien' universe ...before Sigourney Weaver had effectively gained control over the film franchise and, in doing so, caused a huge split in the production crew, most of whom left after the first sequel. It's very different from what happened in the films. It even explains the interaction between the 'Aliens' and 'Predators' ...plus the 'Space Jockeys', who you only see very briefly in the first 'Alien' film.)
Oh, and I'd just like to repeat something that I once said on my early days on this board: that wouldn't it be fun to see some of the CGI-heavy modern sci-fi and horror films re-made using animatronics? I don't know about the rest of you, but when I see the effects in 'The Thing' they have much more weight than those in some more contemporary films.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
The Thing was the first "X-certificate" film I watched on video ( I think; it was either that or Lemon Popscicle!). Not seen it in a while but I'm sure it's still as twisted and as bleak as I remember.
Speaking of Invasion Of The Bodysnatchers, remakes and films being butchered by the studios, there's been a further two versions of it since the 1970s one (which I think is just as good as the original).
Bodysnatchers, directed by Abel Ferrara in 1993, was a bit disappointing considering the extremes the director is capable of. There's a very creepy scene early on when all but one of a school art class draws exactly the same picture but, that aside, I found it pretty unremarkable.
There was also The Invasion from 2007 which I haven't seen. Downfall's Oliver Hircschbiegel directed this although his planned version was cut and re-edited and, by most accounts, suffers badly for it.
I imagine the best remake is The Maltese Falcon. The Bogart/Huston film is actually the third version of it. I haven't seen the first two (I don't think many people have) but it's hard to believe they'd be anywhere near as good.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
Good call on The Maltese Falcon. I have seen Satan Met a Lady the 1936 version with Bette Davis in Mary Astor's role. It'd be OK if we weren't familiar with what was to come. It plays the story for much lighter laughs than Huston did.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
I haven't seen The Thing, but have been meaning to for a while, ever since I got ahold of the soundtrack, which is one of the top later Morricone works. The music is so good that you almost know that the film has got to be brilliant, I mean half the work is already done in terms of laying out a dramatic atmosphere.
Check out this electronic Morricone gem from the film:
Perhaps the subject of giallos (and giallo soundtracks) would make a good thread here if others are as interested.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
I don't watch a lot of films, but The Thing and Assault on Precinct 13 are two of the best that I've seen.
I was a very naughty boy and first watched The Thing when I was about 12 or 13. I was scared shitless and couldn't go near husky dogs for years afterwards.
Isn't it amazing how great a film Assault on Precinct 13 is for such a low budget movie? And it's eerie synth theme music (apparently played by Carpenter himself) is one of my favourite movie tracks of all time.
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The Thing and its critics
They were right the first time round.Scarface was, pardon the pun, massacred when it was first released. The producer, speaking on a documentary available on the DVD, remembers there being one positive review upon its cinematic release (the Chicago Sun-Times, I think) while the rest of the press lacerated it for its excessiveness. It's now hailed as a gangster classic.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
This is as good a place as any to say that I think Brian De Palma and Abel Ferrara are two of the most overrated filmmakers I've ever had the misfortune to watch. The esteem in which both seem to be held is a thing to behold.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
De Palma's mojo disappeared after Carrie — which is, IMHO, one of the very finest American movies of my lifetime. Back then De Palma was — legitimately — regarded as being up there with Scorsese, Lucas, Spielberg and Ashby. He was done in by laziness I think. The quasi-hommages: Dressed to Kill, Blow Out; the repetitive bloody gangster films that did nothing but remind everyone that this Scorsese's turf. It's a shame but very common. It's a rare director that can survive a lifetime in Hollywood with his creativity intact.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
historyman wrote:
Nice one, historyman.I don't watch a lot of films, but The Thing and Assault on Precinct 13 are two of the best that I've seen.
I was a very naughty boy and first watched The Thing when I was about 12 or 13. I was scared shitless and couldn't go near husky dogs for years afterwards.
Isn't it amazing how great a film Assault on Precinct 13 is for such a low budget movie? And it's eerie synth theme music (apparently played by Carpenter himself) is one of my favourite movie tracks of all time.
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The Thing and its critics
There was also The Invasion from 2007 which I haven't seen. Downfall's Oliver Hircschbiegel directed this although his planned version was cut and re-edited and, by most accounts, suffers badly for it.
It's not very good, I must say. There are a few effective moments and it's watchable, but it feels sterile and, more importantly, has no feeling of mood or atmosphere, you simply don't get any sense of dread or fear. One small point of interest is the appearance in a small role of Veronica Cartwright, who appeared in the 1978 version of 'Body Snatchers', which remains, for my money, better than Don Siegal's original and a brilliant film in its own right.
Just found out that Cartwright was actually born in Bristol, by the way.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
As Fartle says, the fact that The Thing came out in the 'big sci-fi summer' of blockbuster (and not-so-blockbuster) releases in 1982 didn't help its cause. I can remember an article in Starburst (or some similar sci-fi magazine) that utterly slated it, systematically ridiculing moment after moment. I don't think I've ever seen it right the way through. I'll look out for it this week, somewhere is bound to be selling it for a few quid.
I first saw the 70's Bodysnatchers film at home, on my own, when my parents were out. Can't remember exactly how old I was, but it absolutely petrified me. After the closing scene I made a dash for my bedroom and wouldn't come out from under the blankets for about a week.Comment
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The Thing and its critics
Bodysnatchers is a great call. The Kaufman version was the first I saw and I still reckon it's the best. I'm kind of surprised it was so badly received, as it feels very much of its time.
Mumpo - I think HMV currently have The Thing in their selection of DVDs for a few quid when you buy something else. Or it's £3 on Amazon.Comment
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