Who?

[Crusoe]

Who?

Yes, it did seem to take some of the best plot elements from earlier episodes and combine them. Still much better than other recent episodes though (best in this series so far?).

My money was on River Song being a later incarnation of the Doctor, but there are some big holes in that theory.

[Guest]

Who?

Overwhelmingly brilliant, I thought.

Good as it might have been, this was also, sadly, the first episode of Doctor Who since the relaunch to lose out in the ratings to ITV, who were showing something with the ironic title 'Britain's Got Talent'.

I wonder, if it had been one of the lesser episodes of the season that had been trounced in this manner, whether knives would start to emerge?

I don't think so. Britain's Got Talent is a beast. It would have crushed whatever was up against it.

[Wyatt Earp]

Who?

Her indoors is arguing strongly for "best yet". I'm being more cautious; I think Moffats need time to bed down before coming to a final judgement. But she also said "best yet" about Blink, and I think she was probably right at the time.

[Guest]

Who?

I was in a state of wriggly nirvana throughout, and was saying "best ever" to myself. At the time I thought Lucy's point about reprising his other stories was in the show's favour - ie it crammed in a dazzling number of great ideas. In the cold light of day I still think that, but I'm not as certain as I was.

[Purves Grundy]

Who?

Only two problems for me:

Firstly and most distressingly predictably: Murray Gold's music - one particularly obtrusive Terry & June style sting actually drowned out a really important thing when the Doctor and Donna heard a noise behind them just after he'd been interrogating the computer system. There was some good low-level bass guitar stuff when they followed Miss Evangelista into the Reading Room, but the rest was just about his clumsiest ever.

Secondly: how exactly did Proper Dave's cadaver acquire the ability to walk and strangle? There's been no suggestion that Vashta Nerada work through possession. Seemed like a bit of Saward-style "just because"-ism to me.

[Guest]

Who?

I thought it was just that there were so many of the bastards in the suit, they were making it move.

It seems churlish to mention it, but I always think the sound mix on Who is awful, and regularly renders the dialogue inaudible. That's aside from the music being crass, of course.

[Wyatt Earp]

Who?

She was also saying "I love Steven Moffat. Literally love him." So I did that one about how if I came home and found them in bed together, I'd go and make them a cup of tea.

[hobbes]

Who?

Wow. Just watched it. Now that's more like it.

[Jimski]

Who?

best in this series so far?

Only by the proverbial country mile. I don't even know why they bothered with most of the others in this series. Especially after seeing what is actually possible...

[boris]

Who?

Best since Blink. I look forward to the dénouement.

Agree with PG's point about the Proper Dave making the suit move - seemed a glaring error to me at the time, but then when I thought about it, I remembered that the Vashta Nerada had already abandoned Evangelista's corpse by the time they found it, so who's to say that wouldn't have moved either?

[Mumpo]

Who?

They've only eaten the flesh around the skull. There's enough of the rest of Proper Dave's body left to stagger around - controlled not by his devoured brain, but the residual neural power of the data ghost.

[Beatle Simon]

Who?

***SPOILER*** (Well, in my world)

I've a theory that Prof River Song may possibly be Captain Jack Harkness!

Consider the clues;

1) She told one of her party (the guy from "The League Of Gentlemen") to put his helmet on because she "didn't fancy him" Pure Captain Jack!

2) She told Donna "I'd travel to the end of the Universe for that man, in fact I did" re; Series 3 finale

3) Captain Jack becomes the Face of Boe. Maybe turning female is part of the transformation. In series 2, their was a news-flash stating the Face of Boe was pregnant, so maybe, just maybe.........

[Mumpo]

Who?

Whoever she turns out to be, I'm hoping that it forms part of a self-contained narrative. The story's too good to be affiliated to one of RTD's big arcs.

(Edit: I said 'arcs')

[Ginger Yellow]

Who?

Brilliant. Not quite up to Blink standards, but a proper sense of danger, lots of interesting questions to be resolved, and very little cheesiness.

You'd think that the other writers would by now have looked at the universal praise for Moffat's episodes and learned from them. Oh well.

[Guest]

Who?

On this topic, is the 1996 "Doctor WHO TV MOVIE" (you know the one with Paul McGann as the Doc) counted as a proper reincarnation of the Doctor? or was it just an attempt by the BBC to get some cash?

[Mumpo]

Who?

Yes (and yes).

Despite being a one-off, it's pretty much universally accepted as a straight continuation of the original series.

- It features Sylvester McCoy regenerating into Paull McGann, so there's narrative continuity
- The BBC treat it as an 'official' story, including releasing it on DVD in the same way as the other classic series DVDs
- In last year's Human Nature/Family of Blood story, the Doctor's journal contains McGann's likeness alongside illustrations of his other past incarnations.

But look, whatever you do, never raise the issue of canonicity with a serious Who geek.

[Guest]

Who?

Would never dream of doing that, was just wondering why there was no mention of him in this thread along with all the others. My earliest memories of the series go back to the days when we had our first black and white TV (early 60'S)and it was the music that got me hooked (very frightening to a young boy!) who had never heard music played that way.

[Mumpo]

Who?

Hello cheeptric, by the way. First posts are on the Doctor Who thread - has to be a good sign.

[Lucy Waterman]

Who?

Nothing after "Revelation of the Daleks" is canon. The rest of what some claim to be the original series is simply an extended spoof. Except for "Mindwarp", which was an experimental broadcast mandated by the MoD. Part Three of this story is now on a continuous loop in one of the more unpleasant interrogation rooms in Guantanamo Bay.

Btw, according to the current canonical orthodoxy, the original series of Doctor Who should be referred to as "Doctor Who: The Original Series" and the TV Movie as "Doctor Who: Deep Space Nine". The new series doesn't get referred to as anything - canonical critics have not yet had time to discuss it, given the pressing need to decide whether the PRIME computer ads fit before or after The Horns of Nimon.

[Purves Grundy]

Who?

given the pressing need to decide whether the PRIME computer ads fit before or after The Horns of Nimon

Anyway, given Moffat's pedigree I'd be terribly disappointed if the River Song identity thing turned out to be something as mundane as The Face of Boe.

[Merlin the happy pig]

Who?

So River Song was what/who she said she was, will she turn up in Moffat's series though?

[Yoss]

Who?

I just posted this on 40percent, but maybe I'm more likely to get decent spoddy answers on here so I'll put it here too:

Well obviously I know that these stories are all riddled with obvious holes, and you just rely on the story to be strong enough for them not to matter - and usually they are, Moffat's especially.

But he seems to have been even lazier than usual in wrapping up this one.

Firstly, what happened to the Vahster Nerada? There they were, these big scary monstery things, to which the only thing to do was supposed to be to run away, and then the Doctor just says "oh back off will you?", and they said "oh, alright then".

And why didn't the planet blow up at the end of the countdown? I must have missed something there.

And the resolution of the River Song thing was just a bit unsatisfying somehow. There he was with this brilliant plan to save her after all, and then it turns out he doesn't - he only saves her consciousness to live on in a virtual world ever after. Which isn't really the same - indeed I'm far from convinced that's even a kind thing to do.

It also means that if they bring her back in furture series as an occasional guest character, which I kind of presumed was the intention, then we're always now going to have the foreknowledge of what eventually happens to her, which is going to be a bit unsatisfying too. (And yes of course there are plenty of great works of film and literature in which you have that foreknowledge throughout and that's part of the deal, but it's not really going to work in Doctor Who.)

Given that it was possible to save Donna and all those others in actual bodily form by saving them on a hard drive through the teleport machine, surely he could have easily contrived to save River in some actual way without much trouble? Was that the best he could do with all those years, maybe aeons, to think about it? That's rubbish, doctor.

I wish to stress that I still loved it, I just felt not quite fully satisfied at the end of it.

[David Agnew]

Who?

smallweed wrote:

Firstly, what happened to the Vahster Nerada? There they were, these big scary monstery things, to which the only thing to do was supposed to be to run away, and then the Doctor just says "oh back off will you?", and they said "oh, alright then".

Um yeah, he told them to read about him, and they shirked away, and er, that was it. Which I thought was rubbish, to be honest.

And why didn't the planet blow up at the end of the countdown? I must have missed something there.

River Song did something with all the circuitry, so that she took all the impact, rather than the planet. Which is why she died and the planet survived.

And the resolution of the River Song thing was just a bit unsatisfying somehow. There he was with this brilliant plan to save her after all, and then it turns out he doesn't - he only saves her consciousness to live on in a virtual world ever after. Which isn't really the same - indeed I'm far from convinced that's even a kind thing to do.

It also means that if they bring her back in furture series as an occasional guest character, which I kind of presumed was the intention, then we're always now going to have the foreknowledge of what eventually happens to her, which is going to be a bit unsatisfying too. (And yes of course there are plenty of great works of film and literature in which you have that foreknowledge throughout and that's part of the deal, but it's not really going to work in Doctor Who.)

Why not? Because of things like cliffhangers?

Also, she can't come back while David Tennant is the Doctor, because she made the reference that he looked younger and different. We also don't know who, or what she is. She could be a Time Lord, who therefore can regenerate, she could look different in another way. And if she can change her appearance, she can change her name. She could be a future companion, and we find out she is River Song, when she goes to leave.

Given that it was possible to save Donna and all those others in actual bodily form by saving them on a hard drive through the teleport machine, surely he could have easily contrived to save River in some actual way without much trouble? Was that the best he could do with all those years, maybe aeons, to think about it? That's rubbish, doctor.

Well not, really. He has years to decide what clue to give her. He has minutes at most between getting unhandcuffed and realising he'd given her the screwdriver as a clue. And, given that we didn't see her dead, and the fact that she diverted enough energy to save an entire planet through herself, at best her remains are charred and few. You probably couldn't fill a matchbox with what is left. The others were saved as they were teleporting, so it's basically kept the data like a teleport machine would (because we're not going to suggest that teleports actually send mass out, are we?), so it was a case of completing the teleport.

I wish to stress that I still loved it, I just felt not quite fully satisfied at the end of it.

Same here. And it still pissed over everything else this series put together.

[Ginger Yellow]

Who?

She could presumably be downloaded into some kind of robot/android body, using the same neural relay technology.

[ian.64]

Who?

I thought it was very good indeed. All the better because I found the first half of the story a bit all over the place and felt indifferent about it - the conclusion wrapped up things very nicely and was even moving in moments here and there. Lovely touches: the crew member resurrected as an Edwardian Woman in Black, the Blue Book, Catherine Tate being entirely watchable and effective...