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    Hilary Mantel

    has died, aged 70. I confess to never having read any of her books, though my mum raves about her. Anyone here a fan? Can anyone help me get over my prejudice against historical novels?

    #2
    I thought the first two Thomas Cromwell novels were fantastic, but haven't read the third yet. Also recall enjoying Eight Months on Gazzan Street, but with some reservations. The trouble is I can't recall it well enough to remember what those reservations were - so I guess it didn't make that much impact on me.

    70 feels very young, and when I'd seen pictures of her there were no suggestions of ill health. It's very surprising.

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      #3
      I strongly dislike the genre, but loved the trilogy, and am not the only person I know for whom that was the case. ad hoc might want to give Wolf Hall a go. You should be able to tell within the first 100 pages if you want to continue.

      She had health health issues for her entire adult life, particularly severe endometriosis, but this is still as great a shock as it is a loss

      ​​​​​​​

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        #4
        Her endometriosis went un/misdiagnosed for a very long time, too.

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          #5
          A sadly familiar story.

          It is a fucking terrible disease that has long been criminally underappreciated by the medical establishment.

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            #6
            Her writing in London Review of Books is usually excellent, I'm pretty sure the people at LRB have unlocked all her writing today in her honour, so go to site and have read. https://www.lrb.co.uk/contributors/hilary-mantel

            I liked Wolf Hall, but not as much as I hope I would.

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              #7
              Originally posted by TonTon View Post
              Her endometriosis went un/misdiagnosed for a very long time, too.
              Yeah that's not at unusual. La Signora suffered from it for decades, eventually leading to a hysterectomy in her 50s

              The Wolf Hall trilogy is excellent, can't recommend it enough.

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                #8
                I've made a couple of attempts at the trilogy. I really need a 6 week vacation where I can shut out all distractions and resist the temptation to alternate it with other reading (which then takes over because it's less work).

                The TV adaptation was all from Cromwell's perspective (were there any scenes where he wasn't there?) but that's harder to pull off in a book, especially if you want the reader to have empathy for the victims who met horrible deaths after he stitched them up (supposedly as revenge for how they treated his mentor).
                Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 23-09-2022, 15:50.

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                  #9
                  I came here to say exactly what Steveeeeeeeee said. I haven't read those essays, but the subjects they touch upon look consistently thoughtful and engaging. I'm sure they'd be worth a read. Sad news today.

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                    #10
                    It's extremely sad to read how the LRB bio of her already lists her in the past tense. Devastating.

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                      #11
                      Very sad. I’ll admit I struggled to get through Wolf Hall but that’s a reflection on my erratic reading style rather than her writing.

                      And I’ll be eternally grateful for her spawning of one of my favourite ever TV series.

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                        #12
                        Sad news, though I have to say I've only ever read one of her books ("Beyond Black") and it really wasn't for me. But I know plenty loved her work.

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                          #13
                          On endometriosis. It affects up to 11% of women. It takes women an average of 6.7 years of complaining of symptoms and seeing 7 different medical professionals to finally be believed and get a diagnosis, which is at "the extreme end of diagnostic inefficiency". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endometriosis

                          As people on this thread have testified, I would say that's an underestimate as well. Women often suffer with painful periods for years or decades before going to see anyone about it. Women are just taught that periods are painful, being a woman is painful and they should suck it up and accept it. We have ridiculous mantras like "no pain, no gain" and women who complain of pain are assumed to be weak or exaggerating their suffering.

                          Endometriosis is a lot more severe than many people realise. It's not just about womb tissue growing outside the womb in nearby places like the fallopian tubes. Endometrial tissue can grow anywhere in the body and has been found as far afield as the chest cavity or even the brain. And the even weirder thing is that endometrial tissue outside the womb still bleeds on a monthly basis with the same hormonal cycle as that inside the womb. Normally with a period, the blood is evacuated safely each month, but if the tissue is somewhere it shouldn't be, that's just internal bleeding with all the associated problems of internal scarring, infection risk, blockages, etc. This literally means that women can menstruate in their brain or their chest, or anywhere in their bodies, often throughout the pelvic cavity.

                          Endometriosis often causes infertility. It doesn't really attract any funding or much research. No-one really knows what causes it and the treatments are pretty barbaric, ranging from "take a painkiller dear" to "erm, we'll just chop all the bits out of you", but they can just grow back again.

                          If 11% of men had this condition, I'm pretty sure we'd be much closer to finding a cure. Tactical Genius this is an example of the type of medical inequality I was talking about on the intersectionality thread.

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                            #14
                            Don't even get me started on the shit women with PCOS have to put up with. "Women's health" really is the dog's arse of medical specialisms and endocrinology consultants are generally an utter waste of carbon.

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                              #15
                              I started reading Wolf Hall. Got about 40 pages, put it down and just... never went back to it.

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                                #16
                                There are good audiobook versions of Wolf Hall and Bring Up The Bodies, I often think it's easier to get someone else to do the heavy lifting if you find a book hard going.

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                                  #17
                                  I have restarted Wolf Hall, being able to go slowly in the time created by cancelation of classes, and it's going fine. I've tuned into her style, am enjoying it, and should be able to get the full benefit of all three books by, say, Thanksgiving.

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                                    #18
                                    Finished the trilogy on Wednesday. I feel that the third volume has some structural and focus issues (but I still enjoyed it). There's a fictional daughter and the last six months, where it all unravels for Cromwell, are rushed. She does include most of the warning signs (Henry drops hints that he's starting to doubt him, especially on Pole) but I think she downplays the significance of Henry bringing back Gardiner and other conservatives and she probably thought that Cromwell did not see the vultures starting to circle because he was so sure the Cleves strategy would work and left himself no Plan B if Henry didn't like her.
                                    Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 25-11-2022, 10:47.

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                                      #19
                                      I thought the acceleration was deliberate, given it is told from Cromwell's point of view. The picking up of the pace of events felt to me like a deliberate choice from the writer to give a sense of the situation spiralling out of her central character's control. Things start going in several directions at once, and he can't keep on top of things any more.

                                      The Cromwell PoV thing might also explain the downplaying of characters like Gardiner. Cromwell doesn't perceive the threat as serious (he has played and beaten Gardiner so many times before that he is sure Gardiner is his patsy, to use modern parlance) so the threat isn't represented as it really loomed.

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                                        #20
                                        I agree with Janik.

                                        The books are very much not written from the perspective of an omniscient narrator.

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                                          #21
                                          Good points. Cromwell didn't see a threat because he had bested all his enemies individually. What he didn't forsee was an alliance, with France's opposition to Cromwell as leverage, although he knew Norfolk and Gardiner were having discussions.

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                                            #22
                                            I've just started reading The Mirror and The Light. It feels like putting on a comfortable overcoat.

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                                              #23
                                              I've started on the French Revolution book. It's 3rd person and has three principal characters, not one, but many of her Wolf Hall themes are already there and there's a similar trajectory of resistance against the Catholic church followed by downfall.

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