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**tee rex** · 09-06-2012, 20:03

Critique my writing, please

I'd be happy to, but I'm no writer, or critic. Still, I'll presume to speak for many others on here, much better qualified, who I'm sure would love to help (though they might be distracted by the football for the next couple of weeks).

Wouldn't you rather do this by PM or e-mail? For the rest of us, a public thread might be fun, but you'd need a thick skin. Good luck with this anyway, I love the "never too late" attitude, only wish I had the same drive.

**Femme Folle** · 09-06-2012, 20:18

Critique my writing, please

I think it's important to develop a thick skin, and the only way you can do that is to put yourself out there. It's actually a big part of why I would prefer to do it publicly. I think the harshest criticism is ultimately the most helpful.

I also don't think you have to be a writer to offer helpful criticism. If you read books, you know what appeals to you.

**Wyatt Earp** · 09-06-2012, 21:35

Critique my writing, please

I'd be happy to do this, FF.

**Femme Folle** · 09-06-2012, 23:45

Critique my writing, please

Thanks! OK, here goes...

This was the first assignment.

Start with this title: The Window

Then, using this title, begin writing something. You may write about something true, something made up, or something halfway in-between. Up to you.

If you�re stuck try one of these ideas:

1) Write about a time you were watching the window, waiting for someone.

2) Write about a strange creature someone sees out the window, like that Twilight Zone episode where a passenger on an airplane thinks he sees a monster through the window.

Turn in what you write. Keep it short, preferably under 500 words.

It�s fine if you turn in something incomplete. And don�t worry about writing something great. Or even good. Just get something written. That�s all that really matters here.

And this is what I wrote:

The Window

The twelve-foot window that spans the width of my living room is what convinced me that I needed to live here. It overlooks the Manhattan skyline and the busy Hudson River; the skyline initially drew me in, but I have come to more appreciate the activity on the river. Ships, tugboats pushing barges, commuter shuttles and sail boats go by all day long, so there is never a shortage of something to watch and it is constantly changing.

Occasionally, really special things go by, like the huge old 747 with the space shuttle strapped to its backside. I normally don't get excited about such things, but the moment I saw it with my own eyes, I lost the ability to speak in complete sentences. It was truly an awesome sight to see. I suppose that if I had lived here a few years ago, I would have had a front row seat for Captain Sully's heroic landing, too.

For nine long years, I lived in a converted attic apartment with tiny windows in an old and unremarkable house in an old and unremarkable neighborhood. They were useless windows for viewing the outside world, filled as they were with air-conditioning units (which were a necessity in the heat of the afternoon). But even if they had not been obstructed, there was nothing there to see anyway, except for more of the same old houses, their insides chopped up into rentable apartments after their owners moved to the more affluent parts of the county. Some of the older residents still lived there when I first moved in; by the time I left, most had passed away. Literally and metaphorically, the old neighborhood was dying.

As I watch the fog roll in and envelope the city from my window in the sky, the old place is a distant memory that fades just a little more with each new day.

Here are the instructor comments for this one:

You describe two neighborhoods by discussing their windows and what one can see out of them. Wouldn't it be interesting to do a whole piece about the places you've lived (by talking about their windows?) Have you lived many places? I think stories that are about setting are interesting. I encourage you to keep going with this. We can learn a lot about characters from the places they've lived. And literary fiction is ultimately about character.

Do you see what I mean about her comments not being particularly helpful in terms of helping me grow as a writer? What about structure? What about grammar? What about cohesion? Does it read like a twelve year old wrote it?

And, for the record, no, I would not like to write a whole piece about the fucking windows in every place I've ever lived.

**Wyatt Earp** · 10-06-2012, 00:33

Critique my writing, please

First off, nice piece. We get a clear feeling of why that window matters to you, grounded in a real sense of place.

Grammar-wise, it's fine, but (though it's hard to tell from so short a piece) it reads to me as if you haven't yet found your distinctive voice. Only you can do that, I reckon, but one place you might start is by looking at the style, which I think could be crisped up in two related ways: replacing stock phrases, and getting tough on redundancy.

I think something like "never a shortage of" is on the way to being a stock phrase, for example. It's a long way from an outright cliche, but I think it's used enough that it's started to lack a bit of vividness. Even saying something "always plenty of" would, for me, work slightly better, because the eye would just zip past it--but even better would be something novel that sounds like you.

By redundancy I mean something like "It was truly an awesome sight to see." "Awesome" is a big enough word without "truly", and "sight" doesn't need "to see" (all sights are sights to see!) And in fact, we kind of already knew you were awed--you'd lost the power of coherent speech!

It'd be a mistake to get bogged down in this stuff at the expense of the fluency you've already attained, but it might be worth experimenting with that kind of ruthlessness at the editing stage, to see what emerges.

Also, man, I did an actual lol at "... no, I would not like to write a whole piece about the fucking windows in every place I've ever lived." More of that kind of thing in the actual piece, why not? That's Femme Folle talking, right there.

**Femme Folle** · 10-06-2012, 01:45

Critique my writing, please

That's exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for--both here and from my instructor on the course.

I understand what you mean about using stock phrases and redundancies. If I think about it, those two things are most likely to make me judge another writer harshly--it seems amateurish. And there I did it without even being conscious that I was doing it. Tsk. I will definitely be more aware of that from now on.

Thanks.

**Sam** · 10-06-2012, 02:04

Critique my writing, please

Heh, I'll be happy to critique too, FF, and the same goes if you want to send anything over PM or Facebook. And to start with, after a quick first reading, I was going to make two of the same comments Wyatt has made, regarding the same phrases - 'truly' isn't needed next to 'awesome' and 'to see' is redundant.

The oter thing I'll say now is that 500 words isn't a lot at all, and I share your quizzical attitude about how good the value is you're getting here, but at the same time if there's one thing that'll teach you to be economical with your phrasing, it's writing stuff to a 500 word limit. It's a fucker of a job. I'd love to know what your 'instructor' expected you to do about everywhere you've ever lived in 500 words. Possibly just list the places?

I'll put something a bit in depth when I've had a chance to read it a couple more times, but those are my first impressions.

**Femme Folle** · 10-06-2012, 03:24

Critique my writing, please

Thanks, Sam!

**tee rex** · 10-06-2012, 03:27

Critique my writing, please

So, my impressions then ...

The two different styles:

1) The twelve-foot window that spans the width of my living room is what convinced me that I needed to live here. It overlooks the Manhattan skyline and the busy Hudson River; the skyline initially drew me in, but I have come to more appreciate the activity on the river. Ships, tugboats pushing barges, commuter shuttles and sail boats go by all day long, so there is never a shortage of something to watch and it is constantly changing.

Occasionally, really special things go by, like the huge old 747 with the space shuttle strapped to its backside. I normally don't get excited about such things, but the moment I saw it with my own eyes, I lost the ability to speak in complete sentences. It was truly an awesome sight to see. I suppose that if I had lived here a few years ago, I would have had a front row seat for Captain Sully's heroic landing, too.

This is writing a letter, or a post on OTF. Apart from the "complete sentences" line, which seems a bit overdone, it comes across as conversational and direct, not many sub-clauses ...

Whereas:

For nine long years, I lived in a converted attic apartment with tiny windows in an old and unremarkable house in an old and unremarkable neighborhood. They were useless windows for viewing the outside world, filled as they were with air-conditioning units (which were a necessity in the heat of the afternoon). But even if they had not been obstructed, there was nothing there to see anyway, except for more of the same old houses, their insides chopped up into rentable apartments after their owners moved to the more affluent parts of the county. Some of the older residents still lived there when I first moved in; by the time I left, most had passed away. Literally and metaphorically, the old neighborhood was dying.

This is the opening paragraph to a novel. I want to read more. Good rhythm and flow, or whatever it's called. You've set the scene, and now you're going to introduce yourself, the Jersey Private Detective, or whoever.

Neither is a bad style, but together, to me they jar a bit. Horses for courses (you want cliches, I got 'em!). I reckon 500 words of either would have been more interesting to read.

On the micro-stuff, I can't really fault the second part, I genuinely think it's a good read. Maybe "literally and metaphorically" is a bit DYSWIDT?

On the first part -

- I don't like "to more appreciate" (US English?) or "awesome" (over- and mis-used in NZ, but again, may be different in US).

- I assume the 747 is in the air, not on the river, but the link ("things go by") could emphasise that contrast ("Above the water traffic" or suchlike).

- The "front row" and "landing" combo is clunky. Presumably it doesn't mean front row of the plane. I haven't come up with a better phrase, though. "Ringside seat" is a cliche, so ... er, something else. Sorry, not very helpful.

OK, that's enough for now.

**tee rex** · 10-06-2012, 03:41

Critique my writing, please

Oh, also "saw ... own eyes ... sight ... see". The same thing, four times. Cut it down, maybe (as WE suggests), cut the last "see".

**Femme Folle** · 10-06-2012, 04:58

Critique my writing, please

But, but, with my glasses on, I have four eyes!

Thanks, tee rex. I appreciate your feedback.

**Femme Folle** · 10-06-2012, 05:15

Critique my writing, please

I liked the second assignment. Again, I wish we had been allowed to write more than 500 words.

Showing vs. Telling

The following paragraph is an example of telling:

Loretta and Mick were driving down a lonely highway one winter night. The car hit something, making a loud noise. Loretta and Mick bickered about whether he was driving drunk or not, then they got out to see what was hit. They peered into the darkness, seeing nothing.

Rewrite this episode, showing what happens. You should stick to these events and stick to the start and end point, but you may add in anything you like. Turn this into a scene that unfolds moment by moment. It will probably include some dialogue. Also strive to include descriptions that are specific and sensory.

Keep it short, preferably under 500 words.

What I wrote:

Loretta pulled the fur-lined edges of her jacket's hood up close around her face as she blew a deep breath out through pursed lips. "Oh my god, it's cold--I can see my breath. Have you got the heat on?"

Mick reached over to the center console and slid the heater's control all the way over to the right. "It's on--must be something wrong with it." Loretta shivered and closed her eyes as she leaned her head back into the headrest.

Mick's older brother Jake had invited them to hear his band play at a small club in the middle of nowhere. It was only a couple of hours away, so they decided to make the trek. Now, as they made the long drive back home, Loretta's head was spinning slightly and her ears were still ringing from the loudness of the music. Mick was feeling much the same way, although he would never admit it--especially to Loretta.

Mick's eyelids were heavy and he was wishing he had stopped for a coffee back when he had the chance. He was also wishing he had not had those last two shots, but he had never been able to say no to Jake, especially when he was buying. He was okay to drive--just a little tired. He gripped the steering wheel firmly with both hands and tried to ignore the soft snoring sounds Loretta was making.

"What the fuck was that??!" Mick yelled as he slammed on the brakes. Loretta startled and instinctively threw out her hands toward the dashboard.

"What happened? Did we hit something?"

"Yeah--it was big, whatever it was."

"What the hell, Mick--you didn't see it? I told you those shots were a bad idea. Now you've
probably killed somebody. This is great."

"Who the hell would be out here on this road, this late at night? Would you please just shut up? Probably a deer or something." Mick got out of the car and shut the door behind him.

Loretta opened the glove compartment and took out a flashlight. Then she got out of the car, waving the flashlight. "Wait, you need this--don't leave me here by myself!"

She caught up with him, shining the light on the road just ahead. They followed their car's skid marks to the point where they began, and for a few yards beyond.

Mick took the flashlight from Loretta's hand and shined it all around: on the road, on the gravel of the shoulder and on the grassy area that extended into the darkness on the other side of it. He was expecting to see something--an animal, or a pothole, or perhaps some debris in the road--but there was nothing there. As he turned back to his left, the beam of light caught a glimmer and he felt his blood turn to ice.

"We have to get out of here." His voice was deadly serious.

"Why? What is it? I don't see anything."

Mick grabbed Loretta's arm as he started to run toward the car. "Just go--NOW! RUN!"

Instructor's comments:

This is very good. It provides back story to the main plot (how they went to see a band), and it points in a forward direction with this suspense at the end.

Makes me wonder. What did they hit? Why would they have to run away? Have they angered the being they hit?

Email me and let me in on this story's secret. What have they struck with their car?

I never got around to emailing the ending to her because there isn't one. I stopped writing at 500 words.

**Amor de Cosmos** · 10-06-2012, 05:23

Critique my writing, please

Just one phrase questionable phrase stuck out for me from the first passage:

Occasionally, really special things go by, like the huge old 747 with the space shuttle strapped to its backside. I normally don't get excited about such things,

"Such things" are what? Big things, unusual things, aeronautical things...?

**Femme Folle** · 10-06-2012, 05:42

Critique my writing, please

Thanks, John. Good point. I sometimes expect my reader to read my mind as well as my writing.

Big unusual aeronautical things. Or, perhaps antiquated spaceships being paraded around like last year's Miss America.

**tee rex** · 10-06-2012, 06:02

Critique my writing, please

Never mind your writing, FF, at least this exercise is making me work on my reading.

I suppose the Mick/Loretta story highlights the narration/dialogue challenge in novels - how to switch between the two. The kind of thing we take for granted when enjoying a pacey page-turner, but it's harder than it looks ... not that I've ever thought much about it, till now!

The narration rattles along nicely, but is broken up by the necessary dialogue when they hit something. And I guess you can't make that too naturalistic, because in reality it would be incoherent noise ("Jesus fucking jesus fuck!"). Anyway -

"I told you those shots were a bad idea. Now you've probably killed somebody. This is great."

... doesn't work for me. The shots reference seems shoe-horned in to fit the earler mention. Maybe it could be a shorter, snappier burst from Loretta.

I like the hints in the ealier paras ("especially to Loretta", "never been able to say no to Jake" etc). Is that what you writers call foreshadowing or summat? Clearly Jake is Loretta's ex (and a crim) and the car's hit one of his henchmen. Stay tuned ...

**Femme Folle** · 10-06-2012, 06:17

Critique my writing, please

I can't disagree about the shoehorning. That was my (poor) attempt at following the instructions about the two "bickering about whether Mick was driving drunk". It just didn't feel natural to me. I think bickering like that, in real life, would take place earlier, say, when they had just left the club and were getting into the car to go home.

My dialogue writing is a little rusty. I used to ride the train to work every morning and would close my eyes and listen to other people's conversations--not because I was interested in what they were talking about, but because I was studying their speech patterns. I think it helped, but I don't ride the train anymore. I ride a bus now, but no one on it talks (except for a few random conversations in Spanish).

**Stumpy Pepys** · 10-06-2012, 09:34

Critique my writing, please

You have my sympathies FF.

I mean, I write for a living, but I write things like articles, documentation and features. But it dawned on me that I'd never really tried creative writing and I was curious to see how I'd get on.

So I'm currently, mostly as a challenge to myself, writing a screenplay for a romantic comedy (and I mostly hate romantic comedies).

And Christ it's hard. If I'm cranking out a feature, it's mostly there by the second draft. I've written about 40 pages so far (I'm aiming for 100, which is about 90 minutes screen-time) and I must have rewritten the thing at least nine times. And I'm having particular problems writing dialogue for the lead female character.

I think I'm pretty self-critical and am able to sufficiently detach myself from my work. And I've frankly written something that's alright, rather than great. I haven't touched it for a week � mostly because I downloaded the screenplay for When Harry Met Sally; ten pages in, I just thought: "Christ, this is so much better than what I've written."

**The Bean Counter** · 10-06-2012, 10:47

Critique my writing, please

It's a good exercise in reading and writing, this thread. Might use it to test some of my own writing, if I ever develop a skin as thick as FF.

It's something I do a bit of as an English teacher, though I don't really have much to add to what people have said above. I thought the second piece was much better than the first, though I'm a little disappointed that you didn't decide what the two people had hit. If you were writing it as part of a longer piece, I think that should have been the first thing you decide, before writing the piece.
The first piece was, as others have pointed out, rather full of stock phrases. The part about the second neighbourhood was more interesting, and sounded like an attempt to explore something deeper and more personal about the character, whereas the first sounded superficial at times. Though really, this is starting to turn into my subjective reaction to the plot, rather than your writing style per se.
I suppose these assignments are good discipline, to get you into the habit of writing every day. However, I write occasionally (not every day, admittedly, but enough to give me occasional practice in writing) and last year, decided to try and write a novel. I found the hardest thing to be actually planning it, creating characters and a plot that can sustain itself over around 200 pages. I'm not sure how much help these assignments will be for that, but I think it would be a good idea to plan a bit more around your stories. For example, you don't have to write anything, but at least know what happens after Loretta and Mike get out of the car.

**Femme Folle** · 10-06-2012, 16:10

Critique my writing, please

I started a script for a TV sitcom a few of months ago and gave up on it because doubts started creeping in about whether or not it was really a good story. When I first thought of it, I thought it would be great. I could even imagine it on TV.

I'll share the summary with you (and if any of you lurking trolls nick my idea, I will hunt you down and stuff your genitals down your throat).

This isn't really for critiquing--it's just a rough summary I wrote at the beginning. And yes, I've called my main character Rachael Greene (like the character in Friends--I did that intentionally--"You're Rachael Green? I was a huge fan of Friends--I can't believe this!" "Friends was a TV show. Rachael Green was a fictional character. You do understand that, right?")

Anyway...

Rachael Greene has just quit her job as a copy writer for a travel magazine. She was unhappy because her work left her little time to devote to her first passion: writing fiction for fun. She had had some success writing freelance articles for a couple of magazines, which had led to the travel writing job when someone at the magazine�s publisher had read one of her magazine articles and offered her a job. At the time, she needed the money and thought that it might be the perfect springboard to a writing career; instead, she found herself creatively stifled and unfulfilled.

After a couple of days of doing nothing, she realizes that she will need at least a part time job to keep the bills paid�her savings will only last so long�so, she goes out to the corner newsstand and buys a paper.

Before she can even turn to the Help Wanted section, a headline catches her eye: �Need Direction? Get a Life Coach�. The article follows a young woman who, with the help of a life coach, has decided to pursue a career helping others as a life coach.

Rachael thinks she could do that; her friends have always said that she was a good person to talk to and that she always had helpful advice to give. How hard could it be to do the same for strangers? So she searches online for information about how to become a life coach. She finds an online certification program and signs up for it.

She finishes the course and sets about to get her business started. She designs her business cards and letterhead and places an ad in the newspaper. She makes up little paper flyers and signs, and posts them up in the nearby coffee shop, the diner and the launderette.

One day she gets a call from a prospective client...

I wrote a couple of scenes for it, but I kind of lost faith in it. But, who knows, maybe I'll go back to it after this.

**Femme Folle** · 10-06-2012, 16:14

Critique my writing, please

zbigniew wrote:

I found the hardest thing to be actually planning it, creating characters and a plot that can sustain itself over around 200 pages. I'm not sure how much help these assignments will be for that, but I think it would be a good idea to plan a bit more around your stories. For example, you don't have to write anything, but at least know what happens after Loretta and Mike get out of the car.

Thanks for that. When I'm writing for myself, I do tend to plan things out before I start writing. With this assignment, I let my mind make up the story as my fingers were typing it. I actually had two scenarios in mind: 1) some sort of of monster with glowing eyes, or 2) a dismembered human being (possibly eaten by a monster with glowing eyes--j/k).

**Lucia Lanigan** · 10-06-2012, 17:16

Critique my writing, please

I find writing fiction much, much harder than writing reviews or features. Having to make the event instead of just describing it gives you so many options it's head-spinning. You have my sympathies, FF.

I tried one of these courses years ago and found it excruciating. The thing with writing anything, I think, is that you need limits but also a purpose. These exercises give you limits, but perhaps not a purpose. If you were setting out to write something specific (a 2,000-word story, say, perhaps for publication in a specific magazine) AND had a particular set of ideas or effects you wanted it to embody you might find that more productive. More difficult too, but I suppose that's the idea: writing exercises parts other activities can't reach.

I suppose the other thing is to make sure you read a lot, so that you can firm up your ideas about what it is you're trying to make. If you want to write a thriller, read a hundred thrillers. Notice exactly where you feel most involved in each one, then work out why (plot, dialogue, character, turn of phrase, humour, implied world-view etc).

I don't do any of this myself, you understand, but it's a hell of a lot easier to give advice than it is to take it. Hence the creative writing industry.

**Nefertiti2** · 10-06-2012, 18:20

Critique my writing, please

The point is that you have to internalise all the criticism and then ignore it. You will pretty soon start to notice your sloppy phrasing and clich�d first thoughts that people have pointed out that mar your first piece-though there's a lot of interesting stuff and striking imagery. Practice and an audience help. Your teacher may not be all you hope. But in engaging with his/her unsatisfactory comments you're beginning to engage with your own aesthetic. As Lucia Lanigan says you have to read/watch a lot and work out what you think is really good. Then copy. If you copy honestly you�ll be original. And remember the line between good and bad is very fine. A great penalty hits the inside of the post and goes in. A poor one hits the outside of the post and misses. It's the same with writing, I think.
The boundary between taut and sparse and dull and pedestrian , between great imagery and purple prose is often not that far.

The truly difficult thing is to make the required effort over a long period to keep writing, even when it seems not worth it. (All unwritten ideas are of course much better than any that have actually to face their imperfections by being expressed in words and read by others).

One of the best things about a writing course is that you are working with other people who are taking writing seriously, and who are doing it every week. Writing like most other things gets better with practice. Hanging out with other people who do it and take it seriously and won�t put you down for trying is helpful too.

As for the sitcom idea- you've written the backstory for an interesting character but everything you've described needs to have happened before your pilot starts.

A tip some writers give is don�t write the pilot first- write episode 10 when Rachel is at work. If the concept works the show will sustain that. Pilot writing is a very particular skill.

Look, say, at the Frasier pilot to see how that�s done.

Lots of material available online, though.

**Femme Folle** · 11-06-2012, 01:46

Critique my writing, please

Very helpful comments, all. I'm reading and re-reading them and will keep reading them as long as necessary.

One of the best things about a writing course is that you are working with other people who are taking writing seriously, and who are doing it every week. Writing like most other things gets better with practice. Hanging out with other people who do it and take it seriously and won�t put you down for trying is helpful too.

Nefertiti: The problem is that I am taking an online course, so I don't have physical interaction with the others on the course. We communicate by posting on a private message board. The others don't see our work (unless we email it to them). I have heard about groups of writers in NYC who meet up every week in various places to sit and write with each other for an hour, just to be in a supportive environment. I can see value in that now (where I couldn't a week ago when someone told me about it).

KV: Thanks so much for that link.

**caja-dglh** · 11-06-2012, 16:03

Critique my writing, please

Femme Folle wrote:

I started a script for a TV sitcom a few of months ago and gave up on it because doubts started creeping in about whether or not it was really a good story. When I first thought of it, I thought it would be great. I could even imagine it on TV.

I'll share the summary with you (and if any of you lurking trolls nick my idea, I will hunt you down and stuff your genitals down your throat).

Ah, this reminds me of the professor I had for Movie Marketing. He wrote Broken Flowers and had it stolen by Jarmusch and the studios (he lost the court case, but the intense bitterness he has still tells us all we needed to know).

Given he committed 10 years to writing in and 6 years since battling his pain, I think the genitals thing would be a bit on the soft touch side.

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